Samuel King born c1765-1766 died 1843 Yarmouth

[amondg]

The Assembly files start 1767 so alternate proof will have to be found.

*Samuel King married Ann Belson 20 May 1771 at St Nicholas Church Great Yarmouth, witnesses were John Harrison and J Mash.
children found so far, same church.
Samuel bap 19 January 1772
Mary bap 26 February 1775
Sarah bap 7 September 1777

*Samuel (married Ann)was buried 4 August 1811 a widow age 69 giving a birth date of 1742.

It would seem that his father is Thomas King - Baker and wife Mary.
Thomas died 1767 Great Yarmouth - baker and left a will ref NCC will register 151 Errington, year 1767 at the NRO.
Hopefully this gives lineage and if they lived to adulthood the daughters married names.

[amondg]

If Thomas King is the right one looks as though he married Mary Warnes 10 February 1740/1 at St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth.
Children baptized at the Goal Street Meeting -Presbyterian
Thomas 27 December 1741
Samuel 9 March 1742/3
Mary 13 Feb 1744/5,  buried St Nicholas 21 April 1748 dau. of Thomas/ Mary
John Say 23 July 1746, buried St Nicholas 25 March 1747 son of Thomas/Mary
James 9 Feb 1747/8, buried St Nicholas 23 September 1748, son of Thomas/Mary
Mary 31 December 1749, buried St Nicholas 20 September 1752 dau. of Thomas and Mary
Elizabeth 9 June 1751, buried St Nicholas 27 October 1751 dau. of Thomas/Mary
James 18 January 1753, did not find his burial yet.
James 31 March 1754, buried St Nicholas 10 September 1754 son of Thomas/Mary

St Nicholas Baptism
John 11 August 1755, buried 15 August 1755 son of Thomas/Mary King
Joseph 9 December 1757. son of Thomas and Mary King

Poll Book Great Yarmouth 18 April 1754 Thomas King -Baker
All above found on Norfolk Family History Society Transcriptions

Gentleman's Magazine February 1755
Thomas King- Baker/Food/Drink of Great Yarmouth, Bankrupt.
found on ancestry.
 
 

[jonwicken]

Thank you so much for all this information.

I had not seen the 1767 will which is a fantastic find and I have just emailed the NRO about ordering a copy.

I had found 1767 and 1784 burials for a Thomas King in Yarmouth but thanks to this information I now know the former must be his.

I also had not found all those burials for their children. Although having checked everything, the 1754 baptism you have for a James is in fact an Ann so the 1754 burial for a James is actually for the one born in 1753.

This really is remarkable.

I assume that as Thomas King was declared bankrupt in February 1755 it must account for his last two children being baptised at St Nicholas' and not the Presbyterian Church.

Joseph born in 1757 was also a baker and appears to have died in 1824.

As of yet I have not found out what happened to Thomas and Ann. But it gives a grim picture of infant mortality with only four of eleven children apparently surviving childhood.

The John Jay King born in 1746 is interesting as presumably Jay was a family surname which will hopefully fit in somewhere along the line.

What I would really like to try and find is more information on Samuel King being made free in 1764. This will presumably list his father and will hopefully have more clues.

There is a leaflet here on it:

http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC098508

Can anyone please shed on any light on how to see this?

Thanks so much for all your help again.

Jon

 

[jonwicken]

Yesterday I found a very interesting piece of information on the King family in 'The Perlustration of Great Yarmouth, with Gorleston and Southtown vol 1' by Palmer, Charles John, (pub 1872).

This is found in a footnote and reads, 'John Say, who died in 1749, devised a small estate at Swanton Abbott to Thomas King, who died in 1767, and who was the great grandfather of Thomas William King, Esq., York Herald, a native of Yarmouth'.

The post of York Herald of Arms in Ordinary is an officer of arms at the College of Arms. More information can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Herald

Now as it appears that my ancestor was this Thomas King who died in 1767, what I would like to try and find out is where this Thomas William King's papers and research might have gone on his own family.

He did research on other families and given this information it seems clear he must have researched his own family. The only question is where this paperwork may have come from!

I have emailed the College of Arms and await to see if they can help at all on this.

Thomas William King was born in Yarmouth in 1801 as the son of Thomas King and Mary Ann Nuthall. They married in 1800.
This Thomas King was presumably the one born in Yarmouth in 1774, son of Thomas King and Sarah Webb who married in 1771.
And then this Thomas King was presumably the one born in Yarmouth in 1741 as the son of Thomas King (d. 1767) and Mary Warnes who married in 1740/1.

This would then correctly make Thomas William King (1801-1872) the great grandson of Thomas King (d. 1767). However of course to be able to see any research Thomas William King did on his family would be amazing. But if course I have yet to know if it even survives!

Best wishes,
Jon

[Yorkslass]

Hi again,

Thomas William King is also mentioned in the Perlustration Volume 2 - a bit more info - and it also mentions Samuel (briefly)

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101062190416;view=1up;seq=185

Yorkslass

[jonwicken]

Oh this is fascinating! Hadn't seen that. Thank you.

I think there is an index to these 'Perlustration' volumes on Yarmouth published in 1986.

These might have more King references in them which could be useful so will have to try and view that.

But this is just great news. Can't believe how how far I have been able to move the King family back thanks to rootschat.

[jonwicken]

I have just found this online about Thomas William King in a book about the York Herald published in 1963 and to be found here:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/bk16/pp182-193

31. THOMAS WILLIAM KING, F.S.A.

Rouge Dragon, Gazette 20, pat. 25 May, salary from 14 May 1833.

York, E.M. wt. 9, Gazette 17, pat. 24 June, salary from 9 June 1848.

S. of Thomas King of Great Yarmouth; b. there 1802; d. 4 February 1872; Rouge Dragon 1833 and later York. Treasurer of the College en titre 1848 having performed the duties since 1833; 1866 owed College £987 and College agreed to accept in part payment, at valuation £300, 142 volumes of his heraldic and genealogical collections, including 60 relating to history of Great Yarmouth, and several others concerning the College and heralds.

F.S.A. 1836, member of Council 1844, etc.; founder member of Cocked Hat Club; original member of British Archaeological Association; wrote article on heraldry in Encyclopaedia Britannica (before 1863); contributed many papers to Archaeologia, J. Brit. Arch. Assoc. and other learned periodicals.

Was Clerk in College before appointment as Rouge Dragon; regular attendant and highly competent officer; considerable private practice.

Arms granted 1835: Azure, on a fess argent between 3 falcons rising, belled or, a dragon passant looking backwards gules. Crest: On a mount vert a dragon as in the arms with a collar embattled & counter-embattled & chain over the back or. Motto: Draconis Metuenda Corolla.


So the College of Arms must have his documents on various families and I assume his own on the King family! This is all rather exciting as I wonder what he might have written on the King family.

All for now,
Jon

[jonwicken]

I have just posted the below as a reply to https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888131.0 but am posting here as well.

My belief through the help of this thread that my ancestor Samuel King (widower of Rose Soanes|King) d. December 1843 aged 77 years was in fact the son of Samuel King and Ann Belson baptised in January 1772 has now been shown to be incorrect.

My believe for this came from this thread and the fact that Norfolk FHS lists the father's occupation on early baptisms as a baker.

I asked here regarding why "baker" was recorded on the transcribed entries but not on the original parish register:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764433.0

I thought is was a bit off that Samuel King's age on his death certificate and burial was 77 so born c1766, as the son of baker Samuel King senior was baptised in January 1772. Also a bit off was the fact my Samuel didn't name a child Ann after his apparent mother.

However the apparent "baker" occupation on his children's baptisms and then applying for the freeman of Yarmouth documents seemed to show this was all correct and just an error in age at death, which is not uncommon.

However, last month I was in Great Yarmouth and visited the library. I looked at transcriptions of the gravestones in the churchyard of St Nicholas' (now Great Yarmouth Minster) in the 19th century, many of whom are now lost, presumably in the World War 2 bombing.

This volumes are "Inscriptions in St Nicholas' Churchyard Great Yarmouth 1830-1834" transcribed by William de Castre in 1917. There are some later gravestone transcriptions also included by another source made after the 1830s.

The husband of Ann Belson|King once had a gravestone there and it records him as Samuel King died 31st May 1811 aged 69 years. Buried with him and named on the same gravestone were Susanna King died 8th December 1818 aged 45 and Samuel King husband of Susanna died 23rd May 1827 aged 55.

This therefore shows that it was not my Samuel who died in 1843 that was the son of baker Samuel King who died in 1811, but rather the Samuel King who married Susannah Whitting in 1798 by licence. This Samuel died in 1827 and his age of 55 matches with the 1772 baptism.

So I am left with two questions:

1. Why does the Norfolk FHS transcription have my Samuel as a baker on his children's early baptisms as the occupation when this is not in the original registers?

2. Who on earth was my Samuel King (c1766-1843) who married Rose Soanes in Corton in 1795? I am back to square one again!

Any help would be appreciated!
Jon

[coombs]

I am sorry for your disappointment about Samuel King, especially as some years ago in 2016 you thought it was the right Samuel, and had cracked the case, but then find some new evidence that totally goes against what you have found.

I know the feeling sometimes, trying to find the origins of a certain ancestor can be like trying to win the lottery.

If he could be traceable on the 1841 census, that would give whether born in county or not.