Albert Edward Watts or Edward Albert Watts, Ross, Herefordshire

[Carbar]

I am having difficulty locating info on Albert Edward Watts, father of Rosina Watts. Her fathers name is given on her marriage certificate in 1901 & he is recorded as Albert Edward on census records with his wife Frances / Fanny. His birth is recorded as c1835 in Ross, Herefordshire, however I cannot locate anything relating to his birth or christening.
I have found an Edward Albert born in Ross c1841, he married a Frances Shedlock in 1862 in Kensington, London, his occupation is given as a baker, all of this info fits in with my records in terms of location, names & occupation - apart from one thing - his name on the marriage certificate & 1891 census is Albert Edward not Edward Albert. 1871 census - with identical details of family members gives his name as Edward Albert. I do not want to assume its the same person, why would he suddenly change his name round?? but info found so far indicate its the same person.
was an Albert Edward Watts & an Edward Albert Watts born in Ross within a few years of each other
Any help or guidance would be appreciated, Thank you.

[Ladyhawk]

Did Frances have the middle name of Kezia?

Is the family on 1871 census living in London RG10; Piece: 700; Folio: 6; Page: 5

E A Watts b1841 Ross Herefordshire occ BAKER
F K wife b1840 Frant Wiltshire dressmaker
F J dau
A J son
H A dau
H son
James House lodger

1861 RG 9; Piece: 20; Folio: 110; Page: 80 - 8 Gray's Place Kensington London
Albert WATTS 20 (1841) servant Ross Hereford occ Baker Jn.

Could you give the reference numbers for the censuses you have found your Watts family on?

[Ladyhawk]

They appear to be the same person - perhaps he just interchanged his name 

1881 RG11; Piece: 82; Folio: 108; Page: 33
A E Watts occ Baker, F, FJ, AJ, HA, H, R age 3

1891 RG12; Piece: 47; Folio: 155; Page: 8
Albert E Watt occ Journeyman Baker , Fanny, Minnie 15, ROSINA 13, John A 10

[Ladyhawk]

There's this marriage

17 Aug 1862 St Philip, Kensington
Edward Albert WATTS age 22 occ Confectioner father James occ Miller
Fanny Keziah JAY age 21 father John occ stonemason
both   8 Providence Terrace, both signed their name
witnesses   William Lee?? Gam??  & Ameila Gait

Do you know the name of the father of your Albert Edwart Watts?

This might be Edward Albert on 1851/1841 census

The sons/dau mentioned noted as the grandson/dau this is written/dittoed above son/dau of Elizabeth 

Perhaps a mistake as the names appear to match with the 1841c (although no relationships are given on that census) Head James wife Elizabeth and their married dau. Matilda's son Allen would be therefore be Elizabeth's grandson

1851 HO107; Piece: 1976; Folio: 235; Page: 59
Elizabeth Watts Widow 
William H  21
Sarah  17
John G 14
EDWARD A  10,  Ross
Matilda D Doughley 26
Allen 3

Matilda Watts to Edmund Cartwright Dowland
Marriage Date:   28 Sep 1845   Saint Nicholas,Hereford
Father:   James Watts

Allin Dowland 1 Oct 1847   Llanbeblig,Caernarvon,Wales
Father Edmund Cartwright Dowland
Mother Matilda

1841 HO107; Piece: 421: Ross; Herefordshire; E D2; Folio:23; Page: 24
James Watts 35 occ Farmer
Elizabeth 35
James 10
William 10
John 5
EDWARD 4 mths
Matilda 15
Isabella 13
Elizabeth 8
Sarah 6
Apart for James Snr. all born in this county

[Ladyhawk]

Rosina Watts Born 3 July 1877 &
Minnie Watts Born  27 Sept 1873
both baptisms on same day 12 Aug 1883
Father Albert Edward Watts occ Journeyman Baker
Mother Fanny Kezia Watts, abode 23 Seymour Place
Parish or Poor Law Union:   West Brompton
Borough:   Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type:   Parish Registers

I am having difficulty locating info on Albert Edward Watts, father of Rosina Watts.

Her fathers name is given on her marriage certificate in 1901 & he is recorded as Albert Edward on census records with his wife Frances / Fanny.

His birth is recorded as c1835 in Ross, Herefordshire, however I cannot locate anything relating to his birth or christening.

Can't see an entry for a Rosina Watts marrying in 1901 there is one 1895 Kensington to either Casley or Lawrence and a 1901 marriage Rosina Casley http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hjv/, says she is widow of Samuel Casley ( Rosina Elizabeth Watts) -  is this the same person?

Who witnessed her marriage/Were they family members?
Do you have the birth certificate of Rosina to confirm her mother's maiden name?

[Ladyhawk]

I have found an Edward Albert born in Ross c1841, he married a Frances Shedlock in 1862 in Kensington, London, his occupation is given as a baker

I forgot to add the following

FreeBMD has a missing female for that 1862 marriage entry, which must be Frances Kezia JAY
wrong letter after page number vol 1a page 132A
(see reply 3 - marriage details given her father John occ Stonemason)

Sep 1862 Kensington vol 1a page 132B
Heather James
Shedlock Frances
WATTS Edward Albert

Frances Shedlock age 21 married James Heather a Solicitor on 29th July 1862,
her father James Forster Shedlock, Gentleman

1851 HO107; Piece: 1848; Folio: 240; Page: 24
Fovant Wiltshire
John JAY 48 occ Stonemason
Catharine 51
Henry 23 mason’s lab.
Alfred 18   ‘’
Aaron 16
FANNY KEZIAH 12
Martha 8

Fanny age 20  is a servant in Kensington
1861  RG 9; Piece: 21; Folio: 141; Page: 31

[Carbar]

Thank you so much for your very prompt response.
Rosina watts married twice, first to Samuel Casley, but was widowed by age 1900, she then married Arthur Ernest warren, its from the marriage certificate for this marriage that her father is listed as Albert Edward Watts.
I don't have Albert's or Rosina's birth certificates yet.

1891 census:  RG12/47/155  p8 he is listed as Albert, with wife Fanny & daughter Rosina
1881 census: RG11/ 82/108  33 he is AE watts, also includes wife F & daughter R
1871 census: RG10/700/6  p 5, he is listed as EA but the initials for other family members match.
I hadn't found the 1961 census.
I haven't found anything else yet confirming his parents or siblings. There is a James Watts & wife Elizabeth on the 1841 & 1851 census, they had a son Edward Albert, living in Ross, Herefordshire. This is the family that I thought may be his but with the name the other way round - but have nothing to confirm it is correct.
Thank you for locating the information on Fanny Kezia Jay, that's another avenue to explore.

[Ladyhawk]

Does Rosina's age on her m/c match with the 1891 & 1881 with her father Albert/AE ?

I noticed on the 1881 census a son with initials A J born c1868 Chelsea - Is his full name Albert James?

There's this marriage entry

Albert James Watts age 20 warehouseman married Emma May Cattell
On 29 Nov 1885 at St John’s Church Chelsea
His father Edward Albert Watts occ Baker hers, Henry cc Butler
Witnesses by Henry & Gertrude Cattell

That gives the above Albert James birth around 1865 

then there's this baptism entry but mother's name not Frances 

Albert James Watts born 14 Jan  1865 Baptism Date:   9 Apr 1865
Father   Edward Albert Watts occ Baker
Mother         Jeanny Derick Jane Watts (ADDED it looks as if it might be Fanney Keziah Ja?)
Parish or Poor Law Union:   Chelsea St Luke
Borough:   Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type:   Parish Registers
Abode 53 Upper Manor

1901 c RG13; Piece: 71; Folio: 9; Page: 10
Albert's pob Chelsea birth year 1865 married to Emma 2 daughters

Will see if I can find anything else

[Ladyhawk]

I wonder if daughter F J Watts on 1871 / 1881 c should be F I Watts

Fanny Isabella Watts born 6 Feb 1863 Baptism Date: 12 Apr 1863 St Luke Chelsea
Father  Edward Albert Watts occ Baker
Mother Fanny Keziah Watts, Abode 35 Robert Street
Borough:   Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type:   Parish Registers

Fanny Isabel Watts 1863 Jan-Feb-Mar Chelsea Volume:   1a  Page:   204