Help with uniform, please.

[mezentia]

I've attached a photo of a group of officers in the Army Service Corps taken at The Curragh in 1912.
I've reason to believe that the officer 4th from the right in the front row is my gt grandfather. I know that in 1909 he was a Staff Sergeant Major, and that he gained serveal campaign medals in the Boer War, so I'm a little surprised not to see a seargeant's stripes on his arm, or any medals. Can any one help with identifying clues from the uniform? What does the thicker braid on the sleeve designate, and the Crown emblem on the right sleeve?

[ScouseBoy]

He may have been a Warrant Officer.  A Crown may have been his badge of office?

His position next to the officer indicates his senior position

[mezentia]

He was made a Warrant Officer in 1909 

[MaxD]

As a Warrant Officer (his rank),  in his Corps he was appointed Staff Sergeant Major (his appointment).  So no stripes, the crown was his badge of rank.  Depending on the regiment/corps, a Warrant Officer would hold appointments with differing titles such as Battery Sergeant Major, Company Sergeant Major and so on.
Many accuse the army of doing this appointment/rank thing simply to confuse the civilian world.

maxD

[mezentia]

He joined the ASC in 1894 and by 1897 was a second corporal. In 1902 he was a Staff Sergeant. By 1904 he was a Staff Quartermaster Sergeant. He was appointed Staff Sergeant Major in 1909, two years before he was posted to the Curragh. In 1914 his rank was Quartermaster and Hon. Lieutenant. In 1915, according to the ASC Journal, he was a First Class Sergeant Major (on probation), and he was appointed Quartermaster on 23 January 1915. By 1918 he was listed as Quatermaster and Hon. Lts. to be Hon. Captain, a rank he held until his retirement in 1923.

I'm not sure what part of the ASC he was in but his number was S/15555, and he seems to have kept this number throughout his career. During WWI he served in Tientsin, China, before returning to Ripon via Colchester.

I'm still trying to trace his military records, which I think are probably in Glasgow as he retired after 1922.

[ScouseBoy]

Thank you for posting that photo mezentia

Good to see the ASC so smartly turned out.

[km1971]

I'm still trying to trace his military records, which I think are probably in Glasgow as he retired after 1922.

If the MOD do not have it, ie it was registered as "First World War" then this applies:

His record as an 'other rank' would be with his record as an officer. The civil servants started to cull these in the 1930s. Those that remain are in either WO 339 or 374 - you can search online.

Here is what the NA say:

There are over 217,000 British Army officers‘ service records for the First World War held by The National Archives. An officer’s file originally had three parts but two of these were destroyed by enemy action in September 1940. What remains was heavily weeded prior to 1940 and in many cases this means that nothing remains for many officers.

The main part lost was a card summarizing his positions. The surviving part is basically correspondence. But my GFs contains his original OR record. In fact two copies, plus his application to be an officer, and references from his school and a copy baptism record.

Ken

[alan o]

There is no mystery as he is indeed wearing the crown correct for a warrant officer rank and has his 2 SA medals on.

He would have worn that badge until  commissioned to be an Officer in 1914.  I believe that there would be a new number for his officers service.

[MaxD]

Minor clarification if I may, officers service numbers were first introduced in 1920.  An officer is best sought out by using forenames and surnames with regiment.

mezetia - presumably you have seen his Great War medal card and associated medal roll entry?  There appears to be only a British War medal and no Victory medal which, unless of course there has been a mistake, would indicate that his service was overseas but not in a theatre of war which service in China would support.  As to what part of the ASC, when he was allocated S/15555. the S/ indicated Supply branch.   He was certainly in a Supply company in South Africa when a sergeant.

maxD