Author Topic: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829  (Read 4886 times)

Offline Radcliff

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #18 on: Monday 09 January 23 20:47 GMT (UK) »
I couldn’t find this Elizabeth Conroy with a husband Charles in any census I think perhaps if your ever over the water check out her admission records , just so she can be eliminated altogether her age in census is 81 so she gains a few years on her burial
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Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #19 on: Monday 09 January 23 21:03 GMT (UK) »
Will check it all out at archives if  when I can next go fitting in with work. Thanks Radcliff. :)
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #20 on: Friday 24 February 23 09:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi Radcliffe,
I was able to look up the discharge and inmate records yesterday.  From what I discovered I think this Elizabeth Conroy will not be my ancestor, but I will report on what I found anyway as this might help someone else.
The inmates register records that she was the wife of Charles Conroy – Seaman.  She died on 15 April 1908 and this was recorded as a discharge.  She had been admitted on 15 May 1903 so had been in the workhouse for five years. 
I did not actually see the admittance record as I had not pre-ordered this and had not known this person had been in the workhouse for so long.  I will have to check to see if the archives has the admittance records for this date and order next time.  It would possibly be a good idea for me to see if she had any recorded next of kin on admittance before I rule this person out altogether.  I suppose there might be a slim possibility she was confused when she went in and did not remember that her husband was James and about her true age.  Although, my thoughts now are that it seems that this Elizabeth is not my ancestor.
I looked up the burial anyway and have added to Find A Grave as this may help someone else – even if just to let them know that this was not the Elizabeth who had been married to James.  It was worth a try, so thank you.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/249866221/elizabeth-conroy
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline JenB

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #21 on: Monday 06 May 24 18:01 BST (UK) »
Cheshire BMD
Elizabeth Conroy aged 78, death 1901, sub district Chester Cathedral,  registers at Cheshire West

Link to another thread - this is not the right Elizabeth, sadly, see reply #3
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=882456.msg7552325#msg7552325
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Offline jonw65

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 07 May 24 14:42 BST (UK) »
Was Elizabeth in the newspapers in 1869 as Conway?
Trouble with her son in law William Watson. He got bound over, but Elizabeth ended up getting a warning as well!

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 08 May 24 07:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Jon,  Thank you very much for this colourful article.  I am very grateful as this is something I have not come across before.
It sounds like their was no love lost between them. ;)  Perhaps they reconciled as in 1881 Elizabeth was with them in the census?
Yes, I do suspect this is my 2 x Great Grandmother Elizabeth.  My ancestors were living in Dipton at one point and her daughter Mary  had married William Watson on 18 July 1864 at St Andrew, Hexham.  They went on to have ten children that I am aware of and I know from some of their children's baptisms that they were living in the Dipton area too at the mentioned time period.
It is such a mystery as to what happened to Elizabeth.  All I know for definite is from the Tynemouth workhouse entries she was in there for one week in July 1900 nd thereafter she seemingly disappears!
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline jonw65

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 08 May 24 14:23 BST (UK) »
Hi RTL
So glad you like it! I think maybe they meant prosecutrix's daughter at the beginning. They were quite happy to shift some of the blame onto the woman, weren't they!

It is a big puzzle. There don't seem to have been vast numbers of Conroys around. I wondered if her name had been mixed up on her death registration, but I don't see anything obvious.

Could she have lived with a man, but been admitted to Tynemouth workhouse as Conroy because she wasn't married to him? :-\
Is it possible that she died in a workhouse somewhere, but her death wasn't registered? From what Boo posted, it took the workhouse master in Chester three weeks to register that death of the wrong Elizabeth!

Were any of Elizabeth's family living in Chirton in 1900? Today it looks to me like a built up part of North Shields, was it any different back then?
Do you know why Elizabeth was admitted to the workhouse? Destitute? Sick?

Wearing hospital clothes

I can't recall ever seeing that before on a workhouse record. Is it significant (or did they give them to her!)

Could she have gone on the tramp? Probably not, but there is a newspaper mention in 1895 of an Elizabeth Conroy, tramp, appearing in court in North Shields, charged with begging. Unfortunately there is no indication of her age. It implies she was from Morpeth, and she promised to get out of town!
I guess there is a kind of connection with Morpeth, as your Conroys were living there in 1851.
Jon

ADDED
I guess the tramp article possibly might tie in with Radcliff's Reply #4, the Elizabeth Conroy in Birtley in 1891. Though the census record says that she was born in Ireland.

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 08 May 24 19:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Jon,
I wonder if Elizabeth went into the workhouse because of being ill?  On admission she was a little older (77) age could fluctuate slightly, and she only stayed in a week.

In 1891 her daughter Mary Watson was in Chirton with her two youngest daughters Ann and Isabella 'Isa'.  John Watson was 'head of household.  Folio 114 page 47

1901
Daughter Mary Watson widow with same two daughters at 168 Stephenson Street.

Articles exist about Mary getting attacked here when an intruder broke in seemingly wanting to see or perhaps get at my Grt Grandfather Simon?

1901
My Great Grandfather Simon Conroy was living in North Shields with an Elizabeth as his (2nd) 'wife' I have never been able find a marriage for them.  Although he did marry another Elizabeth - Elizabeth Crean, formerly Smith nee Linn at St Charles RC Church, Gosforth on 27 January 1912.

Simon Peter Conroy was born 4 June 1851 - Newgate Street, Morpeth. Mother's maiden name Fitzpatrick.
At one point he and his first wife (my Grt Grandmother Bridget Conroy nee McCabe lived in Birtley and their youngest children including my Grandfather was born there in 1890.

Elizabeth's youngest son Thomas of New York Village (near North Shields) was her nearest relative named on her Tynemouth workhouse entry.

As well as living in Morpeth in 1851 both my ancestors James and Elizabeth were jailed there for a few months pending their trial at Newcastle for the 1855 murder of their landlady Dorothy Bewick.  Trial in Newcastle was in March 1856.  Known in the press as 'The Matfen Murder' (I know, I do have very colourful ancestors ::) 8)). They were acquitted on insufficient evidence. 

Mostly I have seen Elizabeth recorded as from Scotland and husband James mostly recorded as from Ireland.

I have just noted all this as way of trying to make connections between it all, in case this might be able to help with matters.

Do you think it could be possible that Elizabeth may have been buried without being death registered?
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline jonw65

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Re: Information sought about Elizabeth Conroy nee Fitzpatrick born c1829
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 09 May 24 18:03 BST (UK) »
Hi RTL
On Rootschat we have seen examples of burials, but with no sign an entry in the death indexes, in those early years of civil registration.
But I'm not sure how likely it is that there could be no death registration at all in the period we are looking at now? :-\
It was possible though for a burial to take place before the death was registered. AntonyMMM is of course the expert on this kind of thing and he has made quite a few posts relating to this topic, ie.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792519.msg6487029#msg6487029

and
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=797131.msg6541037#msg6541037

The Chester death you have just eliminated might be a case in point. Because the burial probably took place well before the death was registered by the master of the workhouse?
So I think maybe it is just about possible that if your Elizabeth died in an institution, they may have been able to procure a burial for her, but then not around to actually registering the death. I guess though this supposes that Elizabeth's children were not involved at all.

Anyway, it seems unlikely that we are going to find Elizabeth's death in the indexes (unless someone has a sudden brainwave!) Is it possible for you to look for a burial via indexes to cemeteries in Northumberland?
It looks like Elizabeth was sick in 1900, and she was getting on in age. I would have thought she must have died before 1911 at the latest, so it's not a decades long search.

I am coming round to the idea that it is your Elizabeth in Birtley in 1891. She was in a lodging house, and that Ireland place of birth for her may not be reliable. Whoever filled out the form may have just assumed it, but didn't enquire about it too deeply.
And the slightly similar Elizabeth Conroy who died in Sunderland was living there in the census tin 1891, so it can't be her.

Your Conroys certainly kept the authorities busy. And the newspapers. Colourful is the word!
My lot are all so boring!
The Matfen Murder sounds fascinating, I will see what I can read about it.
Jon