Author Topic: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool  (Read 3406 times)

Offline Jomot

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 01:26 GMT (UK) »
I thought he might be the Henry born Nottingham Mar 1857.   

On 8 Jan 1887 Charles Henry Whalley aged 32 was charged with stealing four brushes and a pair of scissors at Bromsgrove on 6 July (presumably 1886) and sentenced to 2 months hard labour.  As he was described as 31 on the bigamy charge later the same year, it seems he wasn't entirely sure of his age.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 01:51 GMT (UK) »
George Whalley, Son, 5, Peterborough
Emily Whalley, Daughter, 3, Leicestershire

I see that this boy in the 1871 household is actually Alf[re]d, rather than George.

It seems that both he and Emily died, aged 5 and 3 respectively, in Leicester, Sep qtr 1871.

Alfred & Emily were both buried at Welford Road Cemetery, Leicester in Plot S 619 (unconsecrated section) - Alfred on 14 July 1871 and Emily on 27th July.   Their address at the time was Orchard St, St Margaret, Leicester.

There are only 3 other Whalley's in Welford Road Cemetery:

7 Dec 1864 - William aged 8 months of Willow Bridge Street, St Margaret. Plot A 808
This matches with the birth of William Whalley MMN Jones in the Jun qtr of 1864 in Leicester.

4 Dec 1890, James aged 4 and Ellen 20 months, both of Underhill Street, St Margaret. Plot S 2052
Ellen was born 1889 Leicester, MMN MCCULLATH, and James was born 1886 Nottingham, MMN MCCULLAGH.   
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 02:23 GMT (UK) »
4 Dec 1890, James aged 4 and Ellen 20 months, both of Underhill Street, St Margaret. Plot S 2052
Ellen was born 1889 Leicester, MMN MCCULLATH, and James was born 1886 Nottingham, MMN MCCULLAGH.

George Whalley married Sarah Ann Bonsall or Catherine McCullagh in Nottingham in 1876.  The only couple I can see on the census are in Nottingham in 1881 and 1891 (as Kate).  According to the census George was born 1856/7 in either Alfreton or Nottingham.  Best match is 1856 Belper MMN Ball.   

There may not be any connection, but as Charles' son Henry was born Nottingham in 1857 & both buried children in Leicester I'm leaving it here just in case!
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 03:04 GMT (UK) »
Another child of the family: James Whalley, mmn Jones, Mar qtr 1862 Birmingham.

Baptised (privately), parish of Bishop Ryder's, Birmingham, 19 March 1862.

Parents: Charles* (painter) and Emily, of 50 Lancaster St.

*The name Cuthbert is entered and then crossed through after Charles' name - not sure whether this is significant or just correcting an error.

I suspect its not entirely an error, given this marriage of what appears to be Charles Sr's grandson:

4 Aug 1897, St Chad, Shropshire
Charles Cuthbert Whalley, 42, widower, Painter.  Father: Charles Henry Whalley, Painter
Louisa Dodwell, 40, Widow.  Father: Edgar Brook (Dec'd), Gun Maker
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.


Offline Emsworthy

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 06:36 GMT (UK) »
Ooh, you guys are good! Thank you for your time on this. Hope to be able to unravel this story!  ;D It's certainly fascinating!
~Census Transcriptions, Crown Copyright, National Archives~<br /><br />All Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br />Warner (Essex) Edgley (Suffolk) Blake & Sparrowhawk (Lambeth) Hall & Gibson (Co. Durham) Brown (Yorkshire)

Offline avm228

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 09:00 GMT (UK) »
Another child of the family: James Whalley, mmn Jones, Mar qtr 1862 Birmingham.

Baptised (privately), parish of Bishop Ryder's, Birmingham, 19 March 1862.

Parents: Charles* (painter) and Emily, of 50 Lancaster St.

*The name Cuthbert is entered and then crossed through after Charles' name - not sure whether this is significant or just correcting an error.

I suspect its not entirely an error, given this marriage of what appears to be Charles Sr's grandson:

4 Aug 1897, St Chad, Shropshire
Charles Cuthbert Whalley, 42, widower, Painter.  Father: Charles Henry Whalley, Painter
Louisa Dodwell, 40, Widow.  Father: Edgar Brook (Dec'd), Gun Maker

I saw this but couldn't make sense of the dates.  The bridegroom Charles Cuthbert is of an age(ish) to be Charles Henry the bigamist- has he swapped his name round with his father's name?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Jomot

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 11:11 GMT (UK) »
Good point !   Yes, it would seem more likely to be Charles the bigamist possibly swapping names with his father.   

I'm wondering if Charles Henry was born as Henry, then perhaps Charles Sr was born as Cuthbert? 

They certainly are a puzzling lot  ???
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline avm228

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 11:33 GMT (UK) »
I've just looked back with more care at James' 1862 baptism and the Cuthbert issue.

What it seems has actually happened is that the name Cuthbert was originally entered as the surname, then deleted and added as an additional given name for Charles.  It does seem to be deliberate and therefore possibly significant.

So after the alterations the child is entered as:

James, son of
[given names] Charles Cuthbert & Emily
[surname] Whalley.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Emsworthy

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Re: Charles Whalley/Waley and variants - b.c. 1821 - Liverpool
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 11:51 GMT (UK) »
I am actually here with a pen and paper...haven't done that in a long time!  Thank you for finding all the info so far.  Makes sense as to why he was so elusive in the records.

I'm actually excited to have someone so colourful in the tree!
~Census Transcriptions, Crown Copyright, National Archives~<br /><br />All Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br />Warner (Essex) Edgley (Suffolk) Blake & Sparrowhawk (Lambeth) Hall & Gibson (Co. Durham) Brown (Yorkshire)