McTIMLEY, McTIMONEY, help with Irish/Antrim records, please

[scotmum]

Dulcieburn, can you supply details of John's 1871 census entry (you mentioned previously looking for 1841, 51, 61, so I assumed you had found 1871), as I'm struggling to see it? I can see FindMyPast have him indexed as McTuisoney (  ), in 1881, and have Belfast, Antrim, Ireland as place of birth (but  like aghadowey said, it has been known for people, especially in Census returns outwith Ireland, to give 'Belfast' as place of birth, even if they were born and/or lived many, many, many miles from there - I have come across such in my own research too).

[guest259648]

Dulcieburn, can you supply details of John's 1871 census entry (you mentioned previously looking for 1841, 51, 61, so I assumed you had found 1871), as I'm struggling to see it? I can see FindMyPast have him indexed as McTuisoney (  ), in 1881, and have Belfast, Antrim, Ireland as place of birth (but  like aghadowey said, it has been known for people, especially in Census returns outwith Ireland, to give 'Belfast' as place of birth, even if they were born and/or lived many, many, many miles from there - I have come across such in my own research too).

scotmum, it's kind of you to help.
Thanks for your comments about the use of Belfast as a place of origin, helpful.

The correct census entries are a nightmare to locate because John's surname has been misrepresented (mangled!) in the indexes every single time. I've had to trawl through masses of lists, picking out anything I think has been wrongly read - but, in the end, you do get there. (Once you're able to view the image yourself, you can see why the transcriber read what they did.)

McTuisoney, yes, I chuckled at that.

I'm working from memory here (I don't have my notes; forgive me if I trip up):

UK census collections, online indexes:
1841  nothing yet found
1851  nothing yet found

1861 I found John ['Jno'] in Northampton, lodging/boarding and learning his trade as a shoemaker; the name in the index was badly wrong but it is definitely him; he's boarding/lodging alongside another Irishman, I wonder if they came over to England together;

1871 [answering your request]: closest match so far is a 35-year-old John "McTavery" bootmaker in Greenock, Scotland; this man was born Ireland, feels very likely, investigations ongoing;

1881 In Birmingham, now wed; the surname in indexes is mis-spelled;

1891 In Birmingham; the surname in indexes is something like 'McSarney' .

John died in 1901, the census year, and on the 1901 his daughters can be found living together without him.

John (bootmaker) & his large family lived in a very small area of central Birmingham (e.g. Navigation St, Beak St, Hill St), I think it's Market Hall ward, about where New Street Station now is.

D

[guest259648]

aghadowey
They say we carry our history inside ourselves... sound a bit New Age (!), however instinct is a powerful thing and I have some blood from this Irish family inside me.

To be honest I don't feel James "McT" was a farmer. There are no farmers in my 'crowd' (ancestral or modern-day) anywhere at all and I feel no pull towards that way of life. But a SHOP, oh yes! And I agree, James might have worked in someone else's shop, so he wouldn't appear in any directory would he.

(Ballymoney is a word that's been floating around for ever. It's the only word we have, except for the stated 'Belfast'.)

I confess I have no idea how to explore DNA matches. Please show me?
D

[aghadowey]

You have to do a DNA test (there are different companies availble and each have their advantages & disadvantages in the way you can use the results to trace relationships to other DNA matches).

[guest259648]

aghadowey
OK. Thank you.
What might be the outcome of a DNA test, I'm thinking? Forgive my ignorance, I've never looked at this before.

None of the 'McTimoney' clan I've contacted have a clue about John's origins. We have a 100-year-old member still in Birmingham, they were actually there to hear what was said in the 1920s, very close to John himself, but they are still none the wiser.

Would the test show if I'm connected with any community in the (wider) Belfast area? How accurate and useful is it?

D

[aghadowey]

Much has been written about DNA tests, results, etc.- there's even a separate board for it here on Rootschat.

In order to find matches to another branch of McTimleys (say descendants of another son or daughter of James) descendant(s) would also have done a DNA test so results vary according to information (DNA) available. When you get results I think all sites allow you see your matches in order of relationship so a sibling, parent or first cousin would be listed well before 4th cousin, etc.
Since your link to James McTimley is probably back quite a few generations you would need to do lots of work in order to figure out which matches might also be connected to him. Bear in mind that by now many descendants will probably have different surnames and could be anywhere in the world.
Even is another branch of McTimley family has done DNA they may not show up in your matches if there's only a frangment of common DNA. I have a few matches where I match someone and their cousins but not their sister while OH matches both sister & one cousin but now others.
Another problem is that many people either don't know their ancestry back far enough to figure out a connection, don't include a family tree or don't bother to reply to messages.

[gaffy]

Probably just worth noting the following, in case a Carrickfergus connection should emerge later... the 1852 Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory for 1852 shows the following entry for that town, which is about 12 miles NE of central Belfast:  McAtamney, James, butcher, Irish Quarter.

What looks like his son James married a Susan Lunn in Joymount Presbyterian Church in 1877, the spelling used was McAtaminey:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11133/8076532.pdf

There was also a Carrickfergus butcher of the same era called Daniel McAtamney, I don't know if related to James or not.

[guest259648]

Probably just worth noting the following, in case a Carrickfergus connection should emerge later... the 1852 Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory for 1852 shows the following entry for that town, which is about 12 miles NE of central Belfast:  McAtamney, James, butcher, Irish Quarter.

What looks like his son James married a Susan Lunn in Joymount Presbyterian Church in 1877, the spelling used was McAtaminey:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11133/8076532.pdf

There was also a Carrickfergus butcher of the same era called Daniel McAtamney, I don't know if related to James or not.

gaffy
Oooh!!! That's worth checking out... Thank you for your sharp eyes.
I'll write back as soon as I've had a good look.
Very grateful, D :-)

[guest259648]

aghadowey

Thank you for so carefully explaining to me the benefits (and limitations) of taking this DNA route.
When there's a tough challenge (such as this one) I think every avenue needs to be explored, and so I would definitely consider this. But I'll keep going with a search of the records for a little while longer, because I sense there are things to be found... there's a lot more available than when I was looking before.

D