Patrick BARRETT brickwall

[judb]

This is possibly another child for Robert and Susan REEVES, registered at Braidwood.

NSW 1867 #7316, registered Braidwood
George REEVES, parents: ROBERT, SUSAN

Judith

[wivenhoe]

From the additional information that you now have for the marriage certificate, 1886 -

".... John Reeves (occupation carpenter)…………..mother Ann Green...….."

You should also have parents names for Elizabeth GRIGGS...………. names of four parents.

Do you see "dec" after any of these four names...…...ie would the  absence of such notation be enough to suggest that the parent is alive?.   

Do you know if Elizabeth's parents are alive at 1886?

Are John REEVES and wife Ann REEVES alive at 1886?

[majm]

  NSW marriage Act 1899 is where it became usual to note which parents (if known) were already deceased.

  Funeral directors handled lodging paperwork for death registrations in NSW ... Robert is noted as given name for Patrick's dad in the opening post, so the informant when giving info to the funeral director has likely been asked ... what was Patrick's dad's name, and answered 'Robert', suggesting to me that the informant was not acquainted with Patrick's parents at all.   

  I think the surname of Patrick's dad was REEVES or a variation on it ... only a hunch, but  I think that Patrick giving a surname for his dad that is different from his own surname would NOT be an everyday occurance when organising a marriage.   

  Divorce came to NSW 1873.   Perhaps Patrick's parents were not married when he was born, or perhaps dad died and mum remarried during Patrick's childhood ... either would give opportunity for different surnames.   

  Reeves and Barrett both have spelling variations, including mis-reading on their capital letters and the official records for all of the 19th century were all recorded in longhand. 

  NSW Archives has many indexes which can be reached here: https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/

Fingers crossed,  I will continue with my offline resources, knowing that the others are excellent RChatters. 

JM

[whiteout7]

John Reeves was not this one: Amended date is way out

"£150 DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF WIFE
SYDNEY, Tuesday. (1950)Mr. Justice Maxwell In the Divorce Court to-day ordered John Albert Reeves, grazier, of Wheeo,near Gunning, to pay £150 damages to a shearing contractor, whose wife he had stolen."

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2772105?searchTerm=%22john%20reeves%22%20grazier%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=ACT

Did he get the keep the wife??

[TJ 007]

From the additional information that you now have for the marriage certificate, 1886 -

".... John Reeves (occupation carpenter)…………..mother Ann Green...….."

You should also have parents names for Elizabeth GRIGGS...………. names of four parents.

Do you see "dec" after any of these four names...…...ie would the  absence of such notation be enough to suggest that the parent is alive?.   

Do you know if Elizabeth's parents are alive at 1886?

Are John REEVES and wife Ann REEVES alive at 1886?

No deceased after any of them. I thought they may still be alive then I remembered Elizabeth's Father died 1884.
It must be as JM said the
NSW marriage Act 1899 is where it became usual to note which parents (if known) were already deceased.
Kind regards
Tom

[TJ 007]

NSW marriage Act 1899 is where it became usual to note which parents (if known) were already deceased.

  Funeral directors handled lodging paperwork for death registrations in NSW ... Robert is noted as given name for Patrick's dad in the opening post, so the informant when giving info to the funeral director has likely been asked ... what was Patrick's dad's name, and answered 'Robert', suggesting to me that the informant was not acquainted with Patrick's parents at all.   

  I think the surname of Patrick's dad was REEVES or a variation on it ... only a hunch, but  I think that Patrick giving a surname for his dad that is different from his own surname would NOT be an everyday occurance when organising a marriage.   

  Divorce came to NSW 1873.   Perhaps Patrick's parents were not married when he was born, or perhaps dad died and mum remarried during Patrick's childhood ... either would give opportunity for different surnames.   

  Reeves and Barrett both have spelling variations, including mis-reading on their capital letters and the official records for all of the 19th century were all recorded in longhand. 

  NSW Archives has many indexes which can be reached here: https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/

Fingers crossed,  I will continue with my offline resources, knowing that the others are excellent RChatters. 

JM

Thanks JM some good points there.
The informant on Patrick's death certificate was Patrick's youngest son. He may not have extensively known Patrick's past.
On a different line but when my Grandfather passed away my Aunt was the informant on his death certificate. When My Mother received a copy it had several errors.
Like you, I am believing the Marriage record details over the Death certificate.

I had considered Patrick may have been born out of wedlock and later on Ann married a Barrett.

Also possible Robert Barrett was his real father, maybe he died when Patrick was very young and his Mother remarried? On that scenario maybe Patrick considered John Reeves as the only dad he knew? and put him down as his father on the marriage record.
There is also a Elizabeth Barrett as a witness on Patrick's marriage record. Either a Sister, Sister in-law or an Aunt?
Its a mystery at the moment.
Good point on surnames that can be misread. While searching for the Barretts, a later generation, I found one record listed as Parrett.

Kind regards
Tom


 

[judb]

Speculation only!!

IF  (and it's a very big IF) it were to turn out that  Robert, son of Robert (a carpenter) and Susan REEVES, b 20 April 1863 at Molonglo, is actually Patrick BARRETT, then perhaps the Elizabeth REEVES, with the same parents (Elizabeth, daughter of Robert (a carpenter) and Susan REEVES, b 10 September 1864) morphs into the Elizabeth BARRETT a witness at Patrick's marriage.

I could easily have missed them but I can't find any suitable deaths for Robert REEVES, his wife Susan nor for the 3 children registered to them.   (Obviously Elizabeth may have married)  

Sorry, probably complete red herring!

Judith

[majm]

Yes,   I  have similar speculations ...

Thinking about where to look for actual signatures..   

JM

[TJ 007]

Speculation only!!

IF  (and it's a very big IF) it were to turn out that  Robert, son of Robert (a carpenter) and Susan REEVES, b 20 April 1863 at Molonglo, is actually Patrick BARRETT, then perhaps the Elizabeth REEVES, with the same parents (Elizabeth, daughter of Robert (a carpenter) and Susan REEVES, b 10 September 1864) morphs into the Elizabeth BARRETT a witness at Patrick's marriage.

I could easily have missed them but I can't find any suitable deaths for Robert REEVES, his wife Susan nor for the 3 children registered to them.   (Obviously Elizabeth may have married)  

Sorry, probably complete red herring!

Judith

Very interesting and probably shouldn't be dismissed yet. So far the only records found of Green and Reeves just happen to be at Molonglo or nearby Queanbeyan. The record of George Reeves born at Braidwood which you found the other day makes it two areas Patrick was at during that time period.

We know from Patrick's Marriage record the surnames of his parents are Green and Reeves. The only marriage record found, is for a Reeves and Green are Robert and Susan which just happens to be at Queanbeyan.  Birth records for 2 children found by JM just happens to be at Molonglo.

Here is some more pondering of thought.
On Patrick's death certificate and the trove obituary for his wife Elizabeth both mention a daughter I never knew about. Susan Barrett. Noticed the first name.
Is it possible when Patrick died, his son the informant gave the name Robert Barrett. Thinking his Grandfather was a Barrett. He may have been right on the first name but not the surname?

I don't know much about this but lets speculate  a little.
The 2 birth records JM found for Robert Reeves and Elizabeth Reeves both born at Molonglo were baptised Church of England.
Patrick later on marriage Elizabeth Griggs in a catholic church at Braidwood and he was later on buried in the catholic section at Gore hill. At some stage he has changed religion.
Would someone or a family that changed their religion change their last name too in the 1800's?

If they did change their name how could you prove it?

We know one thing death searches for Patrick's parents or even a marriage search so far have been unsuccessful. There could be a surname or 2 seriously misspelt or perhaps a name change.

Interesting speculation though.

Kind regards
Tom