Will of Robert Aylmer 1493

[francoso]

It appears that Helmington, Suffolk is Helmingham. The Anchoress could be Julian/Juliana of Norwich 1342-1416.

Just suggestions.
francoso

[WillowG]

It appears that Helmington, Suffolk is Helmingham. The Anchoress could be Julian/Juliana of Norwich 1342-1416.

Just suggestions.
francoso

Ooh, well spotted! My gut instinct says Suffolk too.

[WillowG]

Here are a some more Aylmers in Norfolk, in Common Pleas. Robert Aylmere win 1416 had property in Baconsthorp, about 20 miles north of Norwich. There was a Reginald Aylmer, of Baconsthorp in 1420. And there's a Walter Aylmere of Horsham, St Faith, a couple miles north of Norwich.

Easter term, 1416
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no621/bCP40no621dorses/IMG_1790.htm
d 1790, sixth entry:
Norf. Robert Aylmere versus John Wagestaf, of Baconnesthorp, yeoman. Trespass: breach of close belonging to Robert at Baconnesthorp.

Easter term, 1416
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no621/bCP40no621dorses/IMG_1401.htm
d 1401, fifth entry:
Norwich. Walter Aylmere, of Horsham St Faith, spicer; Robert Baroun, of Brokford, Suff, yeoman; Simon Clesse or Cleffe, of Bishops Lynne, dyer; John Bylman, of Wode Norton, yeoman, outlawed to answer Thomas Cok, of Norwich. Debt.

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no636/aCP40no636fronts/IMG_0713.htm
Hilary term 1420, f 713, 2nd entry:
Norf. Robert Brougham, prior of Holy Trinity Priory, Norwich, versus Reginald Aylmer, of Baconsthorp, yeoman. Debt of 20 pounds.

That is the first mention of a Walter Aylmer. That is very, very interesting because it ties in with the pedigree quoted in Miscellanea Genealogica Et Heraldica.

1416, Norwich. Walter Aylmere, of Horsham St Faith, spicer.

Spicer. Some who purchases and sells spices?

Compare with Richard Aylmer, mercer, in 1403 and 1417, probably the same as Richard Aylemer of London, citizen and mercer, in 1412.

Brothers?

And our Robert Aylmer, Alderman of Norwich, Grocer (d.1493), and father Richard Aylmer, Grocer (d.1494), and his son Richard Aylmer, Grocer (d.1514).

Indenture - Agreement
Description:   
1) John Fyncham the elder, gent. and John Fyncham the younger his son and heir
2) John Pagrave of Norwyche, Esq. and Henry Falyate of the same, merchant
Agreement re release made by John Fyncham the elder to Thomas Brewys, Knight, Hugh Fenne, William Tendale, Esq., Richard Holdich, Esq., John Sulyard, Robert Aylmer grocer and John Cook, draper of the manor of Grymston called Brokeles Halle, the advowson of the same with appurtenances and lands and tenements in Grymston, Congham, Rydon, Pawsey and adjoining towns
9 Edw IV
Date: 3 Nov 1469
Held by: Norfolk Record Office, not available at The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/9917e2f7-efa7-492e-a2f7-dd39e8ca8c79

Short title: Howarde v Aylemer
Plaintiffs: Sir Thomas Howarde, knight, and John Felde.
Defendants: Robert Aylemer, grocer, of Norwich.
Subject: Deeds concerning messuage, land, etc in Rackheath (Much Rakkey and Little Rakkey.). Norfolk
Date: 1465-1471, or perhaps 1480-1483
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7444356

A family of grocers?

There is also Sir Laurence Aylmer, Merchant Taylor, from the other thread.

Reference: C 146/596
Description: Grant by Mark Walker, citizen and grocer of London, son of Walter Walker, late citizen and grocer of London, deceased, to William Bracebrigge, Richard Batte, Laurence Aylemer, drapers, and John Parker, scrivener, citizens of London, of a tenement called 'le Crowne' in Westchepe, in the parish of St. Mary of Colchirche, and a void plot of land adjacent; also of a tenement called 'le Ball' in the parish of St. Martin Pomers in Ironmongerlane, within the ward of Chepe: [Middx,] Endorsed: Memorandum of enrolment in the Hustings Court of pleas of land, London, Monday after St. Faith, 2 Henry VII.
Dated: London, 12 August, 1 Henry VII.
Date: [1485-1486]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5885055

It is my belief that he descended from another one of the four brothers, Roger.

Reference: MC 610/4, 781 x 1
Title:   Grant by John Neve to Robert Wyngffeld Knight, Thomas Brews Esq., William Gryis, Roger Aylemere and John Dory of his lands, rents etc. had by gift of William Deye and others together with William Gyle and others in vills of Mendham, Withersdale, Weybread and Fressingfield, 31st May 1439.
Date: 1439
Held by: Norfolk Record Office, not available at The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/eadcb7ad-2853-4b3a-afd1-85bf971d7911

[WillowG]

Robert Aylmere win 1416 had property in Baconsthorp, about 20 miles north of Norwich. There was a Reginald Aylmer, of Baconsthorp in 1420.

One of the Roberts we have previously uncovered, I wonder, or a completely new branch?

Going back to what we know about the earliest Aylmers (or at least what people have written about them ):

THE AYLMER FAMILY BY HANS HENDRICK AYLMER, OF KERDIFFSTOWN
The Aylmers deduce their descent from Athelemar or Ailmer, Earl of Cornwall, who lived in the reiGn of Ethelred (979-1016).* Athelmar, descended from Ethelred the brother of Alfred the Great, founded the Benedictine Abbey of Eynsham in Oxfordshire before 1005. Nicholas Aylmer, patron of Eynsham, was living there some two centuries after ; and his descendants lived in Herefordshire and
Shropshire. In later times the Aylmers were found chiefly in Norfolk, Suffolk, and Leicester.
https://archive.org/stream/journalofcountyk01coun#page/n375/search/Cornwall

MISCELLANEA GENEALOGICA ET HERALDICA
[A]n Aylmer pedigree, in which the first Aylmer in it is described as " the Founder of Eynsham Alley." This man lived in the fourteenth century. He could not have been the founder, for, as I have shewn, this abbey was founded in the tenth century by the great Earl. I referred the matter to Mr. Freeman, the Anglo-Saxon historian, and he said the word "founder" was used in those days to describe the lineal successor of the founder, or what we would call the patron of the living, and Freeman allowed that a man so described must be the head of the family and the male representative of the founder.
https://archive.org/stream/miscellaneagenea4191bann#page/n53/search/Freeman

So we know that Nicholas Aylmer and Cecily Hoo lived in the 1300's. Their possible son Thomas Aylmer dead between 1425 and 1430.

I also found this site, History of Norfolk/Volume 4, https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Norfolk/Volume_4, which is like a virtual treasure trove of Aylmers:

1492, Rog. Aylmer, Esq. he gave 2l. 6s. 8d. to mend their books and vestments, to each of the four friars that carried him into the church, 20d. For a solemn mass yearly in the church for four years, 8l. Friar John Fisher to be his priest, and go to the church of Rome in pilgrimage, and sing mass for his soul at Scala Celi there, and to have 10 marks when he goes out, and 40s. when he comes home.

In 1503, Joan, widow of Will. Aylmer, buried by Ralf Moor, her first husband, in this porch, and gave 5 marks towards painting the rood-loft.

The following inscriptions are in the nave; and first of those on brass plates, beginning at the most eastern part, just by the step out of the chancel, lies a large stone, having the effigies of a mayor in his robes, between his two wives; by the first wife are the effigies of her children, two boys and two girls; and by the second four girls; it being placed here in memory of Richard Aylmer, mayor in 1511, son of Robert Aylmer, who was mayor in 1481, and 1492, and Joan his first wife; he died in 1512. This inscription is printed in Weever's Funeral Monuments, fo. 802, as imperfect, though it is legible at this day:
Aylmer Ricardus Procerum de stipite natus, Is quondam Maior Urbis, iacet hic tumulatus, Hatis cum prima atque suis Consorte Johanna, Moribus ornatus, Bonus omnibus atque benignus, Anno Milleno, D, bind, cum duodeno, Jous semtembris trino, migrabit ob orbe. O bone Christe Thesu, fons bite, spes, Medicina, Votis inclina, te quesumus aure Benigna, Ut sibi sit Requies, bibat terum sine fine.

Hic iacet Robertus Osburn quondam Cibis et nicecomes Ci bitat' istius, obiit rrro die Mens' Marcii Ao Millimo' cccco nona gesimo quinto, cuius anime propicietur Deus Amen.

On a north isle window,
Orate pro bono statu Chome Thome Thirsby, ct Cliz. Ur. et pro aiab: Johis: et Rob. Aylmer quondam maiorum Cibitatis Normici.

[WillowG]

1518, Eliz. Thursby, widow, some time wife of Rob. Aylmer, gave 5 marks to repair the church, a vestment of 20s. and her next best chalice.

1500, Tho. Aylmer, grocer, in the church by his kindred.

1518, Eliz. Thursby, widow, buried in the church by alderman Rob. Aylmere, her late husband, and gave 10 marks towards finishing the church, and her best gilt chalice.

The font is placed on a stone that hath lost four shields, two effigies, and an inscription, but thus much of the circumscription remains.

Prey for the Soule of Robert Aylmer Citezeyn and Alderman of the Moneth of July in the Yer of our Lord God mocccco lxxxxiijo. on whose Soule God

Near it lies a stone with an effigies and this,

Orate pro anima Elizabethe filie Roberti Aylmer nuper Civis et Aldermanni Norvici que obiit xvo die Sept. Ao Dni. mocccco lxxxxiijo. cuius anime propicietur deus.

1459, Alice Aylmer, wife of John Penning, alderman, was buried in the church

Rectors
1308, Master Eustace de Kimberle purchased the house and land joining to the north-west part of the churchyard, with the advowson of the church, of Rob. de Gotherston and Cecily his wife, son and heir of Sir Jeffery de Gotherston, Knt. and settled them for a parsonagehouse and glebe for ever, but conveyed the advowson to Aylmer de Sygate of Erpingham, the founder of the family of the Aylmers in Norfolk.
1309, Eustace resigned to Will. Stone of Aylsham, priest.
1328, Will. son of John de Berton.
1333, Will. Stone again.
1335, Adam Umfrey of Gillingham; all which were presented by John son of Aylmer de Sygate of Erpingham; whose son, John Aylmer of Erpingham, presented Ralf Cat of Berningham, in 1345.
1351, John Sparhauk by lapse. In
1355, Cat took it again, on his former patron's presentation, and in 1359, changed it for Saxthorp free-chapel with Simon Maschal, who in 1361, changed it for Oxwick, with John Mathew. In
1367, Walter Gudeman of Burgate was presented by Agnes Horn, to whom John Aylmer sold the advowson; he died and was buried in the chancel, in 1387.

Vicars
PRESENTED BY THE PRIOR AND CONVENT, AND DEAN AND CHAPTER.

1426, Rob. Aylmer.

I can't read the Latin though.

[Bookbox]

I can't read the Latin though.

Unfortunately, the Latin is rife with mistranscription (b for v; m, n, u and w all confused, etc.), which has necessitated some guesswork:

=====

Aylmer Ricardus Procerum de stipite natus, Is quondam Maior Urbis, iacet hic tumulatus, Hatis cum prima atque suis Consorte Johanna, Moribus ornatus, Bonus omnibus atque benignus, Anno Milleno, D, bind, cum duodeno, Jous semtembris trino, migrabit ob orbe. O bone Christe Thesu, fons bite, spes, Medicina, Votis inclina, te quesumus aure Benigna, Ut sibi sit Requies, bibat terum sine fine.

Richard Aylmer, born of noble stock, a former Mayor of the city, lies buried here (...) with his first wife Joan; he was adorned with qualities, and was good and kind to all; he departed this realm on the third(?) day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand five hundred and twelve; O good Christ Jesu, source of life, hope and remedy, we beseech you hear our prayers with a kindly ear, so that he may be at rest and may enjoy everlasting life.

Hic iacet Robertus Osburn quondam Cibis et nicecomes Ci bitat' istius, obiit rrro die Mens' Marcii Ao Millimo' cccco nona gesimo quinto, cuius anime propicietur Deus Amen.

Here lies Robert Osburn, once a citizen and sheriff of this city, who died the third(?) day of the month of March in the year One thousand four hundred and ninety five, on whose soul may God have mercy. Amen.

Orate pro bono statu Chome Thome Thirsby, ct Cliz. Ur. et pro aiab: Johis: et Rob. Aylmer quondam maiorum Cibitatis Normici.

Pray for the health of the soul of Thomas Thirsby and of Elizabeth his wife, and for the souls of John and Robert Aylmer, once Mayors of the City of Norwich.

Orate pro anima Elizabethe filie Roberti Aylmer nuper Civis et Aldermanni Norvici que obiit xvo die Sept. Ao Dni. mocccco lxxxxiijo. cuius anime propicietur deus.

Pray for the soul of Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Aylmer lately a citizen and alderman of Norwich, who died on the 15th day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand four hundred and ninety three, on whose soul may God have mercy.

[WillowG]

Oh, thank you so much, Bookbox!!! This is brilliant! What would we do without you? You're a star!

I can't read the Latin though.

Unfortunately, the Latin is rife with mistranscription (b for v; m, n, u and w all confused, etc.), which has necessitated some guesswork

Especially when the Latin was mangled, to boot! So impressive.

There we have the exact day of death of Richard Aylmer, 3rd of September 1512, excellent

And he is buried with his first wife Joan.

Pray for the health of the soul of Thomas Thirsby and of Elizabeth his wife, and for the souls of John and Robert Aylmer, once Mayors of the City of Norwich.

This has to be the same Thomas Thursby that we encountered here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=799215.9

So he ended up married to this Elizabeth Aylmer.

It's a small world after all

Kirkpatrick saw the merchant’s mark of Robert Aylmer, mayor in 1481 and 1492, in each of the south clerestory windows. Aylmer was a grocer, councillor for Middle Wymer ward in which the church stands, and later alderman for East Wymer, sheriff and mayor in 1481 and 1492; he died in 1493. His widow Elizabeth left 10 marks to finishing the church and her best gilt chalice in 1518. His mark is still at the top of some of the south clerestory windows.
http://www.cvma.ac.uk/publications/digital/norfolk/sites/norwichstandrew/history.html

In a record on Ancestry concerning this will which I find referenced everywhere (the actual will is nowhere to be found of course ) I find the following sentence: 1518 Thursby, Elizabeth, Norwich, wid., "Robert Aylmer late my husbond" 97 to 100 Gylys

Could Gylys (Gyles, Gillies, Giles?) be Elizabeth's maiden name? (See also the court case involving Roger Aylmer and William Gyle in 1439. Could Gyle be Elizabeth's maiden name?)

Thomas Thursby was Mayor three times, in 1477, 1482, and 1502. Thoresby College, King's Lynn, was built in 1500 or about 1510, a testamentary foundation of Thomas Thoresby, sometime mayor and member of a leading burgess family.
https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/genealogie-richard-remme/I537438.php

I cannot find a John Aylmer on either the list of former mayors of Norwich in The History of the City and County of Norwich: From the Earliest Accounts to the Present Time or on Wikipedia's list of former mayors of Norwich.

List of mayors of Norwich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Norwich

I do however find a John Aylmer in what could be the right period in a list of freemen of Norwich:

John Aylemer        Leche        16,17,&18H.VI

16 Henry VI   1 Sept 1437
17 Henry VI   1 Sept 1438
18 Henry VI   1 Sept 1439
19 Henry VI   1 Sept 1440

Calendar of the Freemen of Norwich from 1317 to 1603 (Edward II to Elizabeth inclusive) by John L'Estrange (1888)
https://archive.org/stream/freemennorwich1317#page/n25/search/Aylemer

(More Lestranges )

Could this be an ancestor Robert? Or would the epitaph have been written differently then?

I have no idea what his occupation, Leche, could mean, though. I assume he had not taken up a new, exciting career as milk, or as an antelope from Tswana

He would have been supremely unlikely to have been elected mayor if he had believed himself to be either of those things

Pray for the soul of Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Aylmer lately a citizen and alderman of Norwich, who died on the 15th day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand four hundred and ninety three, on whose soul may God have mercy.

Is it Elizabeth, the daughter, or Robert Aylmer, who died on the 15th day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand four hundred and ninety three?

Thank you so much again, Bookbox, this was wonderful!

[Bookbox]

There we have the exact day of death of Richard Aylmer, 3rd of September 1512

Please do be careful when drawing conclusions. In my reply #41 above, I did say there was some guesswork, and you will see that I have queried this particular date. That is because the so-called ‘Latin’ provided -- Jous semtembris trino – has been mistranscribed and is meaningless in this form. While the year 1512 is clearly correct, and supported elsewhere, the exact date 3 September is a guess at what the original might have been. Also, the word Jous might possibly be a mistranscription of Jovis (= Thursday), and that’s yet another guess. Caution is advised.

Is it Elizabeth, the daughter, or Robert Aylmer, who died on the 15th day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand four hundred and ninety three?

As the memorial is for Elizabeth, I imagine the date of death will be hers, not her father’s.

[Bookbox]

In a record on Ancestry concerning this will which I find referenced everywhere (the actual will is nowhere to be found of course ) I find the following sentence: 1518 Thursby, Elizabeth, Norwich, wid., "Robert Aylmer late my husbond" 97 to 100 Gylys

Could Gylys (Gyles, Gillies, Giles?) be Elizabeth's maiden name? (See also the court case involving Roger Aylmer and William Gyle in 1439. Could Gyle be Elizabeth's maiden name?)

No, Gylys is the name given to the Register that holds that particular will. (Registers of wills are often designated by the surname of the first testator whose will is recorded in them.)

When you say the will is nowhere to be found, perhaps you mean it is not online? While Ancestry's reference is not particularly helpful, it does at least give you the probate court, the Consistory Court of Norwich, which in turn points to the Norfolk Record Office, where Elizabeth Thursby's will is held, as catalogued here ...

http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=41&dsqSearch=%28%28Category%3D%27probate%27%29AND%28Date%3D%271518%27%29%29

You could contact NRO and ask for a copy.

ADDED - Elizabeth Thursby's will is online after all ...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSND-39XD-9?i=122&cat=278818