John Hill of South Normanton (another Ball family connection!)

[Newfloridian]

I'm trying to make sense of the family of John Hill in South Normanton in the first half of the 19th century and there are several elements which seem to be at variance.

On May 25th 1851, John Hill (of full age) married Hannah Jepson (of full age). Hannah's father is recorded as Isaac Ball. Hannah is described as a spinster.

The records show that Isaac Ball married Ann Jepson in South Normanton on September 25th 1815. Ann had a daughter she had named Hannah sometime in May 1814.

Now the curiosity! Both the 1841 and 1851 censuses for South Normanton have families in residence for John and Hannah Hill

1841 (HO107/195/17 Pg 11:
John (45) FWK; Hannah (45); John (20); Mary (20); William (15); Samuel (14); [I think] Stephen (12); Hannah (11); Harriett (9); Joseph (7); Edmund (5);

1851 (HO107/2123/283 Pg 20
John (35)  FWK; Hannah (35); Stephen (24); Hannah (21); Harriett (14); Joseph (11); Edmund (15); [I think] Frederick (; then Hannah Ball (11) Granddaughter

Baptismal records attribute Jemima Hill to John and Hannah in 1830 and John Hill in 1853.

Obviously  Hill is a common enough name and there were ay least two Hannah Jepsons born during the 1810s. Another Hannah Jepson, born about 1816 married Joseph Ball in November 1833. Are we looking at a single family here - perhaps with John and Hannah only marrying very late in life and many children. I get the impression that John Hill died around 1855.

Regards

Alan

[emeltom]

I don't think the family you  are looking at in the Censuses is the John Hill/Hannah Jepson who married in 1851.

The 1841 Census gives them a year of birth of 1796 which does not fit with Hannah Jepson being born 1814. Eldest son John born c1821 would make her 7 when she gave birth.

The 1851 Census does not make sense either. Hannah is now born 1816 and has a son born 1827!

It is possible that John was a widower when he married Hannah and the children are his from a first marriage, which was also to a Hannah as all the children mentioned in both Censuses were baptised with parents John and Hannah.

However the 1851 Census gives a son born 1842 named Ferdin and the GRO site has a Ferdin Hill registered Mansfield (the Registration District for South Normanton) 1842 with mmn Cook. Unforunately I can't see a marriage between a John Hill and anyone with the surname Cook.

Sorry not to have been very helpful,

Emeltom

[emeltom]

Just found a possible marriage

John Hill/Hannah Cook married South Normanton 24 November 1817

That fits with the 1796 yob on the 1841 Census. There is a possible death for Hannah -

Hannah Hill Jun 1844 Mansfield vol 15 p347 age 43

Age is 5 years out from the 1841 Census but the census that year could be upto 5 years out anyway.

As the Hannah in 1851 has yob as 1816 it looks like that is Hannah Jepson and the Enumerator has John Hill's age wrong.

There is a death in 1860 in Mansfield for a John Hill aged 63 which fits with the age given in the 1841 Census.

Emeltom

[Newfloridian]

Obviously a reason to keep on digging!
I can confirm the baptism of Ferdin Hill (although confirmed the GRO index entry) on November 6th 1842 - son of John and Hannah
However yet another tweak to add to the mix. How many women of child bearing age with the name of Hannah Jep(h)son were there in the area in the early 1840s? (I've always had a sneaking idea that this family's name started off as Jesson and several spelling variations came about through the use of the ligature or long-s/short-s form of the double ss)

To add to the confusion, the South Normanton baptism records show:

April 3rd 1842 William spurious son of Hannah Jephson (Single Woman)
That would match the GRO index Mansfield Union 15 497 J Quarter 1842

Oh well - time to pick up the spade again!

Alan

[Newfloridian]

Found the parish record now for John Hill's marriage to Hannah Cook (November 24th 1817) at South Normanton.

What is particularly intriguing, given the heading I gave this thread, was one of the three witnesses - Joseph Ball. He was probably Isaac Ball's brother - Isaac was the step- or putative- father of Hannah Jepson that John Hill subsequently married. Also Joseph Ball subsequently married the other Hannah Jepson in November 1833 (I haven't yet managed to tie that Hannah, who was born about 1816 to her family line!)

 

[emeltom]

What about these two, to be going on with. Both from fs

Hannah Jepson bapt. 21 March 1816 South Normanton parents Isaac and Ann

Hannah Jepson bapt.  9 September 1817 South Normanton, parents George and Mary

Emeltom

[Newfloridian]

To which we can add:

June 6th 1814: Hannah illegitimate daughter of Ann Jephson and Isaac Ball

Isaac and Ann were married on September 25th 1815

Presumably the March 29th baptism was a second "legitimising" ceremony, but the first one explains why on the marriage to John Hill, Hannah Jepson reported her father's name as Ball.

 

[Newfloridian]

My particular interest in all this is two-fold: identifying multiple marriages between families:

likely example: George Jepson married Mary Burnham in December 1911
The entry before shows Jonathan Burnham married to Elizabeth Jepson

and consanguineous or marriages between cousins. (I have 100 such unions in my database of which 30 are between first cousins). South Normanton presents something of a problem in that so many were born illegitimate. A generation or two further on and you could well end up with unwitting marriage between cousins

[Newfloridian]

Time for a recap and a rethink. I have been attempting to trace the offspring of this family.

My uncertainty still lies around the marriage of John Hill and Hannah Jepson (father's name, Ball)
Assumptions to date have been that this John Hill was born around or just before 1800. The Hannah Jepson mentioned above was almost certainly born about 1814.

That marriage took place on May 25th 1851.
The 1851 census, taken a month or so before, shows John Hill living with Hannah Hill living in Brickyard. In the household they have a son Ferdin (aged whose mother's maiden name was Cook.

The 1861 census - also listing the Brickyard, has John Hill (65) and Hannah Hill (66) with son Ferdin. In both 1851 and 1861 Hannah's place of birth is given as Hucknall, Nottinghamshire.

The 1871 census (a very faded image) has John Hill (?70) now a widow. He is still living in Brickyard. Living with him is Ephraim Muggleston (26) and his wife. The Mugglestone family originated in Osbaston near Melton Mowbray before elements moved to South Normanton. One, Arthur, married Mary Duffield, John Hill's next door neighbour in Brickyard.

There is a Mansfield death record for Hannah Hill (aged 75) in the first quarter of 1871

So, who did Hannah Jepson (father Ball) marry in 1851? I now suspect that it was John Hill, the oldest son of John Hill and Hannah Cook.

The spade never rests!!