Author Topic: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)  (Read 5584 times)

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 17 February 19 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Wonder if this could be Florence Coulson.............. ???

Portland, Oregon, City Directory, 1915 - Florence Coulson - 374 3d Portland Oregon. (Described as nurse on another entry  ???)

Portland, Oregon, City Directory, 1920 - Florence Coulson - r Multinomah Hotel.

Sandra

Interestingly/Coincidence - Portland, Oregon, City Directory, 1925 - Mary Coulson - nurse Multinomah Hotel

Thomas S (painter) and Elsie were living at h 1400 Corbett in the same directory.

Sandra
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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 17 February 19 11:56 GMT (UK) »
There was an Agnes Doyle - sister -in-law on the 1901 census Chester Le Street Durham -
RG13 Piece 4699 Folio 30 Page 8 - did you trace Agnes Doyle  ???

Thomas S Coulson 34 Mary F Coulson   29
Elizabeth F Coulson 7 Thomas S Coulson 4
Agnes E Dayle   21

Sandra
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 17 February 19 15:07 GMT (UK) »

I'll pop these links to previous threads on the family..............find myself digging up whats already been done.  :-\

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703464.0

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744143.0

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 17 February 19 19:49 GMT (UK) »
To save you some time, Sandra, the life of Thomas S Coulson snr is well mapped out.

Born 1866/67 in South Shields, Durham, England.
Was a painter all of his life, lived in many locations across the UK.
Thomas jnr's daughter who is now approx 90 has told me she never heard of
her father's father ever coming to America, and there is no record of him ever doing so.
Thomas snr died in Edmonton, Middlesex, England in 1937.

The life of Thomas jnr is also well recorded.
Born in South Shields in 1896, he married in 1919, took his wife to Canada
to try a life of farming. He arrived just in time to appear in the 1921 Canada census.
The marriage broke down, as did his career aspirations.
By Nov 1921 he was in Vancouver BC applying to cross over into Washington State.
He made two attempts to do so.
On one form he claims he intended to stay with his mother, in Portland Oregon.
Thomas jnr applied for and gained citizenship 1922-24.
He married in 1924, then again sometime after that (can't remember offhand).
He passed away in Portland, 1972.
He also appears on some 1940 draft registration card.
Like his father, he was a painter, of trucks and railway carriages I think.
He has a number of children and grandchildren.


Thomas jnr's mother (and Elizabeth's mother too) was Florence Mary or Mary Florence Coulson nee Doyle. Her UK census data says that she was born in Scotland although her daughter in 1915 seems to think that she was born in Ireland (first wedding). She is absent from the 1911 UK census which hints at least that she may have been in America by then. However she does not appear in any US census using her proper name. Thomas's daughter told me in email correspondence that she sometimes went by one or more false names, and that she survived at least into the 1950s. She has been an extremely difficult character to trace.

Yes I did try to trace Agnes 'Dayle'  (Doyle) some years ago, without much success. I found her in the 1891 UK census with other family members. I pondered the possibility that these Doyle family members might have gone to the US too but could not reach any conclusions from the data.


Your observation that Thomas would have been very young when he first went to Portland is something that escaped my attention until you mentioned it. He would have been 15 years old!
I don't believe he would have gone unaccompanied by an elder so the evidence points towards his mum being that elder (since his father did not go).


If you can turn up anything new on these people I will be delighted.
But there are not many stones left unturned.



-DC





-DC


Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 17 February 19 19:57 GMT (UK) »

SOME QUESTIONS

* When did the US first require travel documentation for entry to the country?

Thomas jnr left a paper trail when he arrived in 1921 but left no such trail when he arrived in 1911.
Does this mean that travellers in general did not get processed in any way in 1911?
If that is the case we would not expect to see data for Florence if she arrived in 1911 with her son.




* We found the name of Elizabeth's parents in the 1915 wedding. Would we see the same names on her 1917 wedding? Would we also see these names on the two US weddings of Thomas jnr?

This could be helpful if Florence was inclined to vary her name.
We might get to see some of these alternatives and then trace her in some of the censuses.



* If Florence arrived in 1911, would she have needed to apply for citizenship, as her son did ten years later? 

If Florence failed to be granted citizenship, might this be a reason she used false names on occasions, perhaps to avoid drawing attention to herself? Was this even an issue in 1911?


-DC

Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 17 February 19 20:48 GMT (UK) »
I have reviewed the email correspondence I had with Thomas jnr's daughter in 2016.

Here are relevant clues to the life of her grandmother, (other parts of the correspondence omitted)



[start]
... His mother, Mary, claimed to have Irish parents. 
.....  She lived in California in 1930"s.  Lived in San Diego area in 1949.  Lived in Hollywood in Hotel Gotham on Highland street in 1952.  She was using an assumed name at this time, Sheila Montague   No word of her after that.  ....
[end]




-DC

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 17 February 19 21:51 GMT (UK) »
Quote
* We found the name of Elizabeth's parents in the 1915 wedding. Would we see the same names on her 1917 wedding? Would we also see these names on the two US weddings of Thomas jnr?

Marriage of Thomas to Caroline 17 June 1939 names his parents as

Thomas Coulson born England
Mary Doyle born Ireland

Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline shellyesq

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 17 February 19 22:29 GMT (UK) »

SOME QUESTIONS

* When did the US first require travel documentation for entry to the country?

Thomas jnr left a paper trail when he arrived in 1921 but left no such trail when he arrived in 1911.
Does this mean that travellers in general did not get processed in any way in 1911?
If that is the case we would not expect to see data for Florence if she arrived in 1911 with her son.




* We found the name of Elizabeth's parents in the 1915 wedding. Would we see the same names on her 1917 wedding? Would we also see these names on the two US weddings of Thomas jnr?

This could be helpful if Florence was inclined to vary her name.
We might get to see some of these alternatives and then trace her in some of the censuses.



* If Florence arrived in 1911, would she have needed to apply for citizenship, as her son did ten years later? 

If Florence failed to be granted citizenship, might this be a reason she used false names on occasions, perhaps to avoid drawing attention to herself? Was this even an issue in 1911?


-DC

There were passenger lists in 1911 and long before that.  My guess would be that you just didn't find the passenger list yet or it doesn't still exist.  I would also take the exact time frame given for a past arrival with a grain of salt, as memories fade or mistakes in writing things down were made.

Immigrants definitely did not need to apply for citizenship on arrival then.  I think five years of residency was required to be naturalized then.  I think men applied for naturalization more frequently then than women did, so not terribly surprising that her son would.  I don't think they were trying to kick out law-abiding people who weren't living in the poorhouse in those days, so she probably did not change her name to dodge the immigration authorities.


Offline Milliepede

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #53 on: Sunday 17 February 19 22:44 GMT (UK) »
Oh no just lost my whole post  >:(

Anyway looking around for Agnes Doyle.  If I have found Mary Doyle in 1891 born Scotland she has a brother John also born Scotland.

Agnes is only 21 in 1901 so can't have been married that long.

Long shot but John Doyle marriage in 1900 St Saviour

One of the two brides is Agnes Mary Wilson.  Other bride Jessie Mabel Rhodes.
Other groom Walter Richard Garrett.

Long shot as can't see the marriage online but it would make her a sister in law.

Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos