Help needed to find Birth and Death records for John Walker

[Mainsforth]

My wife’s maiden name was Crawford. She is known to family and friends as Edna.

I am currently working on the Walker branch of Edna’s family tree and I have been unable to find records of the birth and the death of her great grandfather John Walker. Ancestry, Scotlands People, Find My Past and Family Search searches - including wild card, fuzzy and sounds like - have drawn a blank.

I should be grateful for any help that points me in the direction of online records of John Walker’s birth and death - I am unable to visit to the Archives in Edinburgh.

Record images I have for John Walker suggest he was born around 1852 and 1855 - about the time Civil Registration replaced a system overseen by the Churches. The info about John extracted from the images includes:-

1861 - aged 6 eg born 1855 Inveresk, Midlothian

1871 - Railway labourer, a boarder at Cauld Coats [Farm], Newton, Midlothian, Scotland, aged 18 e.g born 1853 Inveresk Midlothian

1881 - Fireman Gas Works, 38, New Street, Edinburgh, aged 29 e.g born 1852 Musselburgh Midlothian

1891 - Fireman Gas Works, 57 Canongate (3 Forsyth’s Close, Edinburgh, aged 39 e.g born 1852 Musselburgh, Midlothian

1901 - Fireman Gas Works, 4 Chessels Court, Edinburgh, aged 49 e.g born 1852 Musselburgh, Midlothian

1911 Labourer Gas Works, 6 Wilsons Court, 134 Canongate, Edinburgh, aged 59 e.g born 1852 Musselburgh, Midlothian

31 Dec 1874 John married Helen Denholm in the Church of Scotland, 3 St Johns Street, Edinburgh.

1 Apr 1875 Janet [Jessie] Walker was John and Helen’s first of 10 Children, 4 girls and 6 boys.

The direct line ancestors in the same line as John Walker are:-

Edward Crawford  born 4/3/1904, Married 13/7/1928, died 16/4/1984 - Edna’s father
Margaret Geoghegan born 11/10/1909, died 6/1/1983 - Edna’s mother

Edward Murphy Crawford born 22/7/1875, married 6/9/1901, died 10/5/1917 -Edna’s grandfather
Janet [Jessie] Walker born 1/4/1875, died 21/12/1944 - Edna’s grandmother

John Walker born ?, married 31/12/1874, died ? - Edna's great-grandfather
Helen Denholm born 9/10/1853, died 24/5/1907 Edna’s great-grandmother

Joan [also known as Joanna or Johanna] Walker born 24/2/1816, died 8/4/1884 - Edna’s great-great-grandmother - census records suggest Joan may not have married

Robert Walker born 6/12/1794, married 6/3/1813, died 6/4/1843 - Edna’s great-great-great-grandfather
Margaret Howdon [Howden] born 3/4/1786, died 15/4/1851 - Edna’s great-great-great-grandmother

[chempat]

Welcome to rootschat, khf,

You have:

31 Dec 1874 John married Helen Denholm in the Church of Scotland, 3 St Johns Street, Edinburgh.

What other information is on that certificate?

Who is with him on the 1861 census?

[chempat]

Just putting 1851 household:

Margaret Walker   67
Joan Walker   35
Margaret Walker   11
Marion Mamillan   7
James Taylor   1

and 1861:
Joanna Walker   45
Margt A Walker   21
James Walker   10
John Walker   6

[chempat]

Do you think that James and John have the same, or different, fathers to Margaret's?

Have you found James's and Margaret's births?

[KirstyG]

Do you have the marriage records for any of John and Helen's 10 children? If any of them list him as deceased it would give a year range to search.

[Forfarian]

Ancestry, Scotlands People, Find My Past and Family Search searches - including wild card, fuzzy and sounds like - have drawn a blank.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

[Annette7]

You'll have to purchase some credits to view the certificate on Scotlands People but John Walker died 24/7/1935 Canongate.

Annette

[Mainsforth]

Thank you all for your help

chempat

I have the same info re the 1851 & 1861 households.

The info about John’s family on the record of his 31 Dec 1874 marriage is:-

Occupation: Stoker, Gas Works

Status: Bachelor

Age: 22

Usual Address: 38 New Street, Edinburgh

Name, profession etc of father: None

Name and maiden name of mother: Joan Walker

Helen’s address, father and mother: 160 Canongate, Edinburgh, James Denholm, Malster, Janet Denholm m.s. Anderson - respectively.

I have no info about the father(s) of James and John.

The records of John’s marriage and his death have no info about his father.

The record of Margaret’s marriage says her father was Robert Walker, Joiner. The father of John’s mother, Joan, was Robert Walker (1794 to 1843) and the 1841 census says he was a joiner.

Joan's 1861 and 1871 census records have her status as unmarried.

Her status in her 1881 census record is difficult to decipher. It could be interpreted as either unmarried or widow.

The record of Joan's death gives her status as Single.

Annette

Thanks for the date of death I now have a copy of the image of the record of John’s birth.

[Forfarian]

1861 - aged 6 eg born 1855 Inveresk, Midlothian

If he was aged 6 on census day 1861 (30 March) then assuming that his age is accurate he was born between 31 March 1954 and 30 March 1855 - in other words, he is three times more likely to have been born in 1854, before the start of civil registration, than in 1855. ('Calculating' a year of birth by subtracting the age from the census year gives the wrong answer three times out of four.)

1871 - Railway labourer, a boarder at Cauld Coats [Farm], Newton, Midlothian, Scotland, aged 18 e.g born 1853 Inveresk Midlothian
1881 - Fireman Gas Works, 38, New Street, Edinburgh, aged 29 e.g born 1852 Musselburgh Midlothian

Inveresk is in the parish of Musselburgh.