Christening of Robert Back [Wye area - possibly 1630s]

[MattD30]

I wonder if anyone is able to help me locate the christening of my ancestor Robert Back.

I know that Robert had two sons who were both christened in Wye. These were

William Back - christened 6 May 1651
Edward Back - christend July 1653

Beyond this I have not been able to find anything else out about Robert. I have not been able to find a marriage for him, any other possible children, or a burial.

I suspect that Robert might have been born in the 1630s but so far I can't see anything. There is a christening in Wye in May 1626 for an "Edward Back" who is down as the son of Robert Back and I wondered if this might be a sibling.

I think this Robert Back was from Ashford and married twice as I have found two marriage licences for "Robert Backe, of Ashford, woollendraper" in 1627 and in 1632.

In the first of these Robert is described as being "25" and he married Jane March of Hythe.

In the second licence Robert is described as "Robert Back, of Ashford, woollendraper, widower" and married "Martha Brett, of Wye, v, about 22, daughter of Percival Brett"

If these two refer to the same Robert, which I think they do, then he must have been born in the 1600s (probably between 1601 and 1604) and it's possible that this Robert could be the grandfather of y Thomas Back (born 1651)

Unfortunately I can't find a Robert Back christened in either Wye or Ashford in the 1600s. The only Robert I have found was christened in Wye in 1594.

Is anyone able to offer any ideas or help.

Many Thanks
Matt

[Nhoj0471]

Hi Matt

I am also researching BACK of Wye area in the 1600s. 

I believe your Robert Back married Katherine Court 25/3/1641 in Godmersham.  Robert was 24 yrs a yeoman of Godmersham son of Robert.  Katherine was 17 yrs of Godmersham, dtr of William

I have the following children of Robert & Katherine
Ann c 23/10/1642 Godmersham
Elizabeth c 23/6/1644 Godmersham
William c 6/5/1651  Wye
Edward c 16/7/1653 Wye
Thomas c 24/3/1659 Wye
Matthew c 24/2/1660 Wye
John c 2/8/1663 Wye bur. 7/5/1665 Wye

I suspect there is also another son, ie. Robert born about 1649

You mention a Thomas Back born 1651. Was this mean to read William, or have you found another Thomas..  I would be interested to know how you descend.

My ancestor Thomas Back of Kennington m Elizabeth Amis in 1697, but I havent been able to confirm when my Thomas was born

The Robert Back who married Jane March and later Martha Brett was born 1601 son of Thomas Back & Joane Masters m.1588.  His siblings were Margaret 1590, Grace 1594, Elizabeth 1595, Thomas 1598 Edward 1606 and Joane 1609.

I have further bits and pieces of BACK information.
 
Regards

John
Australia

[MattD30]

Hi Matt

I am also researching BACK of Wye area in the 1600s. 

I believe your Robert Back married Katherine Court 25/3/1641 in Godmersham.  Robert was 24 yrs a yeoman of Godmersham son of Robert.  Katherine was 17 yrs of Godmersham, dtr of William

I have the following children of Robert & Katherine
Ann c 23/10/1642 Godmersham
Elizabeth c 23/6/1644 Godmersham
William c 6/5/1651  Wye
Edward c 16/7/1653 Wye
Thomas c 24/3/1659 Wye
Matthew c 24/2/1660 Wye
John c 2/8/1663 Wye bur. 7/5/1665 Wye

I suspect there is also another son, ie. Robert born about 1649

You mention a Thomas Back born 1651. Was this mean to read William, or have you found another Thomas..  I would be interested to know how you descend.

My ancestor Thomas Back of Kennington m Elizabeth Amis in 1697, but I havent been able to confirm when my Thomas was born

The Robert Back who married Jane March and later Martha Brett was born 1601 son of Thomas Back & Joane Masters m.1588.  His siblings were Margaret 1590, Grace 1594, Elizabeth 1595, Thomas 1598 Edward 1606 and Joane 1609.

I have further bits and pieces of BACK information.
 
Regards

John
Australia

Hi John

Thanks for the interesting and helpful reply to my post. I don't have my notes on the Back family to hand at the moment so I will get back to you in more detail over the weekend.

My Backs were later centred around the Westwell and Kennington areas of Kent.

More to follow....

Matt

[Nhoj0471]

Hi Matt

Look forward to hearing from you again.  My BACKs are also from Westwell

 John

[Nhoj0471]

Matt

On Family Search:  Robert Buck c 28/1/1617 in Kennington, Father -William

and:  William Buck m Jane Barrow 21/10/1616 Kennington

John

[MattD30]

Hi Matt

I am also researching BACK of Wye area in the 1600s. 

I believe your Robert Back married Katherine Court 25/3/1641 in Godmersham.  Robert was 24 yrs a yeoman of Godmersham son of Robert.  Katherine was 17 yrs of Godmersham, dtr of William

I have the following children of Robert & Katherine
Ann c 23/10/1642 Godmersham
Elizabeth c 23/6/1644 Godmersham
William c 6/5/1651  Wye
Edward c 16/7/1653 Wye
Thomas c 24/3/1659 Wye
Matthew c 24/2/1660 Wye
John c 2/8/1663 Wye bur. 7/5/1665 Wye

I suspect there is also another son, ie. Robert born about 1649

You mention a Thomas Back born 1651. Was this mean to read William, or have you found another Thomas..  I would be interested to know how you descend.

My ancestor Thomas Back of Kennington m Elizabeth Amis in 1697, but I havent been able to confirm when my Thomas was born

The Robert Back who married Jane March and later Martha Brett was born 1601 son of Thomas Back & Joane Masters m.1588.  His siblings were Margaret 1590, Grace 1594, Elizabeth 1595, Thomas 1598 Edward 1606 and Joane 1609.

I have further bits and pieces of BACK information.
 
Regards

John
Australia

Hi John

Hope you are well. With regards to my original post the "Thomas Back born 1651" should have read "William" so sorry for the typo.

William Back (born 1651) is my ancestor and he married Mary Deale in Wye in 1673. She was born in Wye in 1653.

The had the following children:

Sarah Ann
Catherine
Thomas
Mary born 1677 Boughton Aluph
William born 1678 Boughton Aluph

I don't know when the first three children were born however.

Mary married James Holmes (I don't have the date to hand but will let you know it) and William married Mary Ottaway at Canterbury in 1711.

William and Mary had a son named - William Back - who was christened in Kennington in 1714. This William married Margaret Holmes, who was his cousin in Canterbury in 1738/39. She was the daughter of James Holmes and Mary Back and was born in Ashford in 1718.

William and Margaret had 4 children (maybe more)

Ann - born 1743 Boughton Aluph
Elizabeth - born 1745 Kennington
Thomas - born 1746 Kennington
William - born 1750 Westwell.

My direct ancestor is Elizabeth who married Charles Spice at Kennington in 1771.

Thanks for the extra info on Robert and his family. I look forward to hearing from  you again.

By the way I wonder if your Thomas who was married in 1697 could be the Thomas Back son of William Back and Mary (Deale)? If this Thomas was born in the 1670s it would certainly fit. I'm sure you know that your Thomas was married by Licence, but sadly the Licence doesn't give his age.

Best Wishes
Matt

[MattD30]

Hi John

Hope you are well. I have done some more digging on the Backs and also the Courte family and made a few interesting discoveries.

As you said Robert Back married Katherine Court in Godmersham in 1641 when he was 24. They were married by licence which states that his father was Robert Back [who consented to the marriage].

So far I cannot find a christening for Robert son of Robert Back in the area in  the right time period [Robert would have been born in about 1617 if he was 24 when he married Katherine]. Have you had any luck with him? You mentioned a Robert Buck son of William but surely no one has mixed up the names Robert and William??

Now here's something very interesting. I have looked into the background of Katherine Court and found her christening and that of her siblings, and also several wills relating to the family. I know it's the right Katherine as she has a brother named Clement Court and one of the bondsmen to to the marriage between Katherine and Robert was "Clement Court of Waltham".

Katherine and Clement were two of the children of William Court and Elizabeth Pell who married [by licence] in Stelling in 1622. Interestingly her name is written as Pett in the marriage licence index but this is clearly a transcription error. Elizabeth is described as the "daughter of Michael Pett of Northamptonshire" - Northamptonshire?

I did some searches for an Elizabeth "Pett" daughter of Michael in Northamptonshire (and Kent) between 1601 and 1604 (she was born about 1603 according to her age on the licence) but this gave no results. However when I took out her surname and restricted the date range to 1602-1604 I found this

Elizabeth PELL - daughter of Michael and Elizabeth Pell - christened 13 March 1603 Burton Latimer, Northamptonshire.

It fits exactly and clearly her surname is incorrectly transcribed in the index to the marriage licences.

So the question this raises is what was Elizabeth doing in Kent? All the rest of the Pell family seem to have remained in Burton Latimer. Any ideas?

Let me know what info you have on Robert and his ancestors and I'll send you another update tomorrow.

Best Wishes
Matt

[Nhoj0471]

Hi Matt

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

For the children of your William & Mary i have:
Mary c. 15/4/1677  Boughton Aluph
Thomas c. 28/2/1674  Boughton Aluph
Elizabeth c 8/2/1680         "
Catherine c 11/10/1682  Kennington
Robert  c 1/3/84  Kennington,   bur. 12/7/1684
Ann  c 2/4/1693 Kennington
I also have christening date for William as 7/7/1681 in B.A. which differs from yours.

I have also found christenings for a Margaret 1610 & John (born & died 1614) in Hinxhill, the children of Robert Back. Was there more?.  As for the Robert born 1617 to William, I wonder if it might be worth while checking will of Robert Barrow 1619 (father in law of Robert) if only to hopefully confirm his daughters husbands name. ie. Was it William Back ? Interestingly Robert Barrow married a Grace Back 1578

As for my line i descend from Usher Back b1743 son of Thomas Back & Mary Usher.  From manorial records I have been able to ascertain land  descending on female line to Catherine & Mary Back (dtrs of Thomas & Mary)  which  originally came from Deborah Taylor who left it to her grand children Deborah Amis & Elizabeth Back (nee Amis).m Thomas Back 1697.  The will of Peter Amis 1707 refers to his daughter Elizabeth the wife of Thomas Back the younger. So it seems that my Thomas is the son of a Thomas.  Unfortunately that's as far as i can take my Back line.

If I find anything else which connects with your earlier Backs' I will let you know.

Happy researching

Regards
John

[Nhoj0471]

Hi Matt
If you are still looking for Robert Back c1616 son of Robert, I have found what I believe is most possibly them.
From the will of Edward Back of Hinxhill 1625 mentions dtr Jane, son Arnold and wife Mary. Also Robert Back son of my brother Robert, Ann Back dtr of my brother Robert and Margaret dtr of my brother Robert.  The executors of will were Robert Back (brother), Kennett Back (kinsman) and John Bull.  Edward Back married Marie Bull dtr of John Bull 22 Nov 1612. Unfortunately have found no christening for Robert, but have found baptism for Margaret 16 Sep 1610 and a John c 9 Feb 1614 -bur 28 Feb 1614 in Hinxhill both to Robert Back. Also a marriage licence for a Margaret Back about 23 dtr of Robert Back yeoman of Chilham who consents to Henry Samon abt 22 at St Mgts. Canterbury 2 Apr 1635.
 
The will of Mary Back widow of Hinxhill proved 1633 refers to her son Arnold, dtr Jane Clark, brother John Bull and brother in law Robert Back.
The will of Arnold Back 1638 references Robert Back my uncle and heirs of Robert Back son of my uncle Robert Back.

Hope this may help. Should you happen to find anything else on the Back families i would be very interested.

Regards
John