Author Topic: Family lived on canal boats  (Read 959 times)

Online bbart

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 24 March 19 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Do we even know for sure that Charles is the son of William and Sabrina, or is that just based on the 1911 census?

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Offline keyboard86

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 24 March 19 19:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Charles Bould was registered 1898 Congleton mmn Stevenson.
Keyboard86

PS 1901 RG13/3352/72/30
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Online bbart

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #38 on: Monday 25 March 19 17:31 GMT (UK) »
The Sabrina mystery (as uncovered by Keyboard86, super-sleuth!):

I think what could have happened is the following confusing post, however it doesn't explain why the children did not acknowledge their father on the marriage records:

In 4th quarter 1859, John Downs married Ann Gregory  (District Stockport, County Cheshire, Volume 8a, page 41)  (As you always get four names, I believe I have correctly ruled out the the other two as a couple, as they are trackable on census).

John Downes and Ann Gregory have Mary, and Sabrina.  I have not found the birth for Mary, but Sabrina is  DOWNES, SABRINA    mmn GREGORY  GRO Reference: 1864  S Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 2

We know from Keyboard86's discovery (reply 32) that John Downes didn't remarry Hannah Stevenson until 1871, and the most common reason for that back then is, they were still married in the eyes of the law/church.  Divorce was not an option back then unless you were very rich, so Ann Gregory must have left him, and by 1871 either deceased, or gone long enough he could remarry.
However, they (John and Hannah) lived as a married couple, and the next three children, were registered as Downes, mmn Stevenson.  That means Ann Gregory left between the birth of Sabrina, and Thomas.  Thomas was baptized at Hartshill 08 July 1867 to John and Hannah, boatman.
In 1871 John and Hannah Stevenson marry, and on the census, they are all Downes  (See reply 25 by Keyboard86).  The same year, they get Mary baptized (Keyboard86 reply 32).
Between 1871 and the marriage of daughter Mary in 1880, something happened to make the paternity a question for Mary. 
In 1881 Census, Sabrina has left home, working as a servant, but still using the Downs name  (mentioned by Keyboard86).
However, at the marriages of each of Sabrina and half-brother Thomas, both leave the father's name blank. Sabrina, who never knew her real mother, thinks Hannah is her mother, and uses Stevenson.  I assume they knew they were both born before John and Hannah married, so they thought they were really Stevenson's.  Thomas starts using the Stevenson name in censuses.  He may have still used the Downes name in real life, as not to confuse people; we will never know that part).  Sabrina uses Stevenson when getting married, as she thinks Hannah is her mother, unmarried at her birth.

The paper trail so far indicates that John Downes was the father to all, but for some reason, 3 of the children (so far, haven't checked marriages for the others) all refuse to acknowledge him. 

The marriage registration for John Downes and Ann Gregory is the key, as it might disprove all of this, but so far, this is the only thing making sense.

As for the marriages, Sabrina married Charles Bould, who I believe was a first cousin to the Boulds that Thomas and Mary each married. 

Online bbart

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #39 on: Monday 25 March 19 18:31 GMT (UK) »
John and Hannah had a bunch of kids after the 1871 census, which I don't have time to post right now, but from the marriages I can find so far, they seemed to have no problem naming John as the father, but they were not marrying Boulds like the others did .... could there have been a big Downes vs Bould feud going on?  Was the canal boat business highly competitive?

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #40 on: Monday 25 March 19 18:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi working on the possible marriage of John Downes/Downs to Ann Gregory trying to locate 1861.

Hannah Downs 50 Widow remarried a William Bailey 43 Widower occ Blacksmitb 18th September 1892 Etruria, St Matthew
Grooms father John Bailey occ Printer
Brides father Benjamin Cooper occ Locksmith
Both parents deceased.
Both resident Salem Street.

Hannah Bailey died March qtr 1911 Stoke on Trent aged 70

Also when John Downs married Hannah Stevenson 1871 he said he was a batchelor.
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online bbart

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #41 on: Monday 25 March 19 19:04 GMT (UK) »

Hannah Downs 50 Widow remarried a William Bailey 43 Widower occ Blacksmitb 18th September 1892 Etruria, St Matthew
Grooms father John Bailey occ Printer
Brides father Benjamin Cooper occ Locksmith
Both parents deceased.
Both resident Salem Street.


I saw that, and of help to that, one of Hannah and John's daughters, either Louisa or Maud Florence, lived on Salem St. after marriage  (my notes are so scattered I can't find it at the moment),  Maud married Frederick Tideswell 1902, and Louise married Charles Pritchard in 1897.   From Maud's delayed baptism, John and Hannah lived on Lord St in 1897:

Maud Florence Downes born 21 jan 1883 to john and hannah Lord st, boatman baptized 28 Mar 1897  (and of course, didn't put the Church in my notes....  ::))

Quote
Also when John Downs married Hannah Stevenson 1871 he said he was a batchelor.
I think that means Ann Gregory was still alive, so he wouldn't be allowed to remarry.  I have hit that several times in trees, but those trees were so much easier to make a good paper trail (and a few times getting caught and put in the newspaper!).

Offline Snape123

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Re: Family lived on canal boats
« Reply #42 on: Monday 25 March 19 21:22 GMT (UK) »
 :o This is all so confusing! I think im going to have to try and draw out a map of it all!
So much fantastic information though :) thank you so much for helping! There's no way i could have found all of this and tried to figure it out by myself!