Long standing mystery... Sarah SUMMERS 1810 Calne, Wiltshire

[Ayashi]

My 4th great grandparents were William HILLIER (1807-1885 Bishops Cannings) and Sarah SUMMERS (c1810-1898).

The Hillier side of my research was not done by me- an older cousin had been researching the family for years and I opted not to tread on her toes and to focus on other "unclaimed" areas of my tree. There is, however, one thing I keep coming back to.

According to my cousin, Sarah SUMMERS was the daughter of Sarah PUMROY by an unnamed SUMMERS. Over the years whenever I've asked her how she knows this, she avoids answering. Every single time I've asked, she's glossed over that question or told me she'll "have to get her research out some time" and never does. I think I'll never get an answer, although I am confident that even if she's wrong, she's seen something somewhere in order to reach that conclusion. I'm not sure why she's being elusive.

Here's what I know-
Marriage 20 Apr 1835 in Bishops Cannings to William HILLIER. She was recorded as native of Calne. Witnesses were Stephen CARD and Mary SUMMERS (!). Marriage produced 8 children- Dan, Dathan, Jacob, Esau, Jasper, George, Mary Ann and Elizabeth. Maiden name on births confirm mmn SUMMERS.

Censuses:

Bishops Cannings
1841- Not found
1851- 1815, Calne, Wiltshire
1861- 1815, Calne, Wiltshire
1871- 1811, Broadsgreen, Wiltshire
1881- 1810, Calne, Wiltshire
1891- 1811, Calne, Wiltshire

The "official" dob in my cousin's research is 1810 Calne. No actual christening date has been given to me. I have looked on various of the usual sites (Ancestry, FS etc) and never seen a Sarah SUMMERS or PUMROY christening that would match.

I would like to ask for help to:
a) find the original research that my cousin found in order to reach her conclusion
or
b) find a new line that might be correct.

Thanks for anything in advance
Ayashi

[warncoort]

A lot of unpublished records here.
http://www.archersoftware.co.uk/igi

[horse000]

Can't see either names as suitable in the Wilts FHS Calne BT/PR

There is this on FreeReg, age a bit out and about 20 miles SW of Calne 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nvk/

Geoff

[Ayashi]

Thank you. This appears to be George SUMMERS x Sarah LONG. I note there is a sister Mary also, but perhaps with a name like Mary that should be little surprise lol

I'll have a poke at her, see if I can "kill her off" or otherwise account for her 

Edit- well heck, that's sad... looks like only three of their ten children lived; Jane, Sarah and George.
Another edit- she might well have been the one to marry William DOEL in North Bradley in 1835.

The only other one I'm seeing is 1811 Bremhill, but it doesn't look like that one ever marries- single on the census and dies under SUMMERS.

[hanes teulu]

FindMyPast has 3 baptisms (transcription only) for a Sarah and 1 for a Sarah Ann (transcription only) for "Calne, St Mary 1810-1812" where the transcriber appears to have been unable to determine the surname. The transcription simply shows ? in surname. 

[..claire..]

Maybe nothing but,

Noting Sarah states her place of birth as Broadsgreen in 1881 there is this for possibly the Mary Summers witnessing Sarah's marriage.

A year after Sarah married,  a William Carpenter married a Mary Summers in Calne by licence and with the consent of parents. A transcript of the licence gives Mary's age as 17 and 'dau of Geo'
- George Summers & Ann Sumler married 1811.

In the 1851 census Mary Carpenter gives her place of birth as 'BRADS GREEN' - census ref: Class HO107,  Piece 1837,  Folio 207, Page 22.

Sarah may have been conceived before George S married and could be Mary’s half sibling.

Claire

[Ayashi]

Thank you both

I'll look into that.

I have dropped my cousin another message since it can't hurt but I'm not holding my breath on it.

[jomcd967]

Following on from Claire’s post on Mary d/o George & Ann Sumbler....

Children of George & Ann
John bap 1814 Calne (born 1812)
Sarras bap 1814 Calne St Mary born 1814, baptised same day as brother John.
Mary/Mary Ann bap 1817 Calne St Mary (of Stockley)
William bap 1819 Calne St Mary (of Broad Green)
George bap 1824 Calne St Mary
Henry bap 1827 Calne St Mary
Elijah 1829 Calne St Mary
Alfred 1833 Calne St Mary
Jasper bap 1834 Primitive Methodist
Mark bap 1836 Calne St Mary

1841 Stockley Calne
George 50
Anne 45
George 15
Henry 14
Elijah 13
Alfred 10
Jasper 7
Mark 4

In 1851 George & Ann are in Broad Green, Stockley, Calne, next door is William & Mary Carpenter, and on the other side is Elijah & his family.

Also in Broad Green in 1851 is John Summers, 30, his wife Jane (Wilkins, widow of Benjamin Rivers, although son Dathan has MMN as Tanner?) and their various children.....of note is one of their sons baptised as Dathan Summers in 1838.

As such an unusual name, there is also a Dathan Sumbler, s/o Isaac and Sarah (Fishlock) born 1840 in Calne.
Isaac (b1801 Calne) appears to be the brother of the above Ann (b1793 Calne) and the son of Henry & Mary Sumbler.

George appears to be the George Summers b1789 Cherhill to Betty Summers.

It looks like this family is a good possibility as being Sarah’s and is worthy of further digging....unless your cousin gets back to you with further details.

Jo 

[Ayashi]

Awesome! That's wonderful, thank you!

My cousin has been wrong before- she once said that one of our ancestors, Ellen GILL, was born as Jane Ann. The family accepted this, particularly as Ellen was her own great-grandmother and died only ten years before she was born. I was the one, several decades later, who asked her how she knew about the name change- I would consider "word of mouth" as valid evidence given the closeness of relationship- especially as I saw a valid birth for an Ellen GILL. She admitted I was right- at the time she'd been doing to registry offices etc herself and had completely missed the birth of Ellen and could only find a Jane Ann. The sad part is that there are a lot of online trees that still have "Ellen 'Jane Ann' GILL" 

I'm excited to poke at this again today

Ayashi

-Edit: Going through each of the SUMMERS children trying to trace them, their children, their marriages etc... they seem to be interlinking with each other but thus far no strong link to Sarah. One thing I haven't been able to see is the christening for Dathan SUMMERS 1838 (I see the GRO and his census after 1881...). Can I ask where you saw that, please?