Kisby SMITH (bap 1773) and Darnaty SMITH (bap 1778)

[Darnity]

My ancestor Darnaty DRAPER (died 1877 aged 46, no baptism found)  had a brother called Kisby.

After an "incident" in the late 1800s Kisby starts using the surname COTCHIN - his mother's maiden name - and his brother Spencer starts using SMITH as does his brother Alexander.

Kisby had children with Cinderella BELDAM who also used SMITH.

I doubt they all plucked the surname Smith from thin air - it suggests there are Smiths somewhere in their wider family relationships.

Richard Edmund's "Early British Gypsy Families volume 3: Smith" has a tantalising reference to
some baptisms to Medrick SMITH and his wife Mary which include a Kisby at Sydenham, Oxon in 1773 and a Darnaty at Melksham in 1778.

To find these unusual given names in two families - the SMITHS and my DRAPERS - suggests some connection between them.

Darnaty and Kisby's father is believed to be William DRAPER who is the son of another William DRAPER and his wife Eleanor, surname currently unknown. Maybe she was a Smith?

Does anyone have Kisby and Darnaty SMITH on their tree?

Does anyone know the connection between this 18th century Smith family and the 19th century Draper family?

Thanks for any information.

[Darnity]

A very helpful contact has found a couple of relevant events.

It looks like Darnaty SMITH didn't live very long and was buried at North Bradley, Wilts on June 8th 1778.

However her parents may have baptised a daughter Eleanor at Wingfield, Wilts in June 1773.

This could be Eleanor, wife of William Draper, who would be my Darnaty's grandmother. The baptism mentions Bow Brickhill which is where Eleanor Draper died.

I'm still interested to hear from anyone who knows more about Mederick SMITH and his wife and their children.

Thanks

[peggysmum]

The Kisby name fascinates me. not such a common first name but it pops up twice with my drapers. There must be a connection between mine and yours.
Tracey

[whiteout7]

There was a Private Kisby Draper in WW1, West Yorkshire Regiment, service number 52039.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/
#Gipsies Roll of Honour World War One

Private Kisby Draper is mentioned as the son of Mr. Kisby Draper in the papers, he was in hospital in Micham with wounds in December 1917.

Kisby Draper alias COTCHIN of Leighton Buzzard is the newspapers a fair bit!
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

Kisby Cotchin, labourer, Leighton, failed to appear to summons taken out by his wife, Ann Cotchin, charging him with assaulting her striking at her with poker.
1874,  Bedfordshire, England

 Kisby Draper, alias Cotchin, who had been apprehended in London, 1875

[whiteout7]

Danarty? Drucella? Brucella? Smith and Cinderella Bedlam on Barnes Common in 1862 (Wandsworth Police Court).

Jane Smith (35), hawker, and Cinderella Beldam (30), hawker, charged with obtaining a quantity of grocery goods by false pretences
1863, Potterspury, Northamptonshire

Cinderella Beldam, sister of Mrs. Boilea (interesting surname is it a mistake?)
1867 Oxfordshire

If you sign up at
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
you can read 3 articles for free and save them

[whiteout7]

Kisby Draper the WW1 Soldier born in 1898 was registered as Kisby Draper at the GRO with a mothers maiden name as Smith.

So this is a quite recent Smith/Draper marriage compared to the Smith link further back you mention.

DRAPER, KISBY       SMITH 
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in SEVENOAKS  Volume 02A  Page 675

I think this one was born in Knockholt in the Sevenoaks District of Kent.

His father Kisby Draper was born about 1875 in Houndslow, Middlesex but the GRO registration does not leap out at me when I search.

There is a 3rd Kisby Draper born about 1835 birthplace uncertain but he appears in the 1851 census
(Was this Cinderella Beldam's (( born about 1839)) partner?

[whiteout7]

Links for the Kisby Draper to Kisby Cotching name change:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=132544.0

https://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1354624

You might be dealing with more than one generation of Drapers in marriage to Smiths

[Darnity]

Thanks for these references - our Kisby was something of a "character" and frequently in the press.

Cinderella Beldam aka Smith - her mother appears to be Mariah Smith - had children with Kisby and he also had others with his wife Ann.

It's the Mederick Smith line prior to c1800 in relation to the William Draper, father of the William Draper who partnered Mary Cotchin that I'm trying to figure out.

Oh and the reference to Cinderella being sister of Mrs Boilea - the surname is Boiles/Boyles. I forget which census it is but the Beldams are in company with a chap called something like Anselm Boiles who then goes on to partner/marry one of the Beldam girls.

Thanks again