Burials and records of ordinary soldiers before c1750

[philipsearching]

This is a random enquiry - not related to any specific ancestor.

Muster rolls give us the names of ordinary soldiers, and names/regiments occasionally occur in Parish Records.  Individual records of ordinary soldiers who died in service are hard to find (particularly burials after battles).

But if these records are not available what sources are there?

Several of my multiple great-uncles and cousins disappear from parish records - particularly in the time of the English Civil War and the Duke of Marlborough's campaigns.  It is tempting to imagine that they joined the military - but I have no proof.

[Jebber]

I believe most  records of men who died in service were usually destroyed after twenty years. If they died in the UK you would have to have an idea where, usually around garrison towns, then search the PR’s.

You may find deaths in the overseas returns. A wild hope if they have a common name.

[Pennines]

I don't know how helpful this might be - but there is some information at the National Archives

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-up-to-1913/#8-soldiers-who-died-in-service

However I have also heard - and I don't know how true this is, but can believe it -- many soldiers who died in early battles were simply buried in surrounding fields, so I cannot imagine there would be any records for such cases.

[philipsearching]

I don't know how helpful this might be - but there is some information at the National Archives

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-up-to-1913/#8-soldiers-who-died-in-service

However I have also heard - and I don't know how true this is, but can believe it -- many soldiers who died in early battles were simply buried in surrounding fields, so I cannot imagine there would be any records for such cases.

The National Archive has muster rolls going back to the 1730s - which have been very useful.

The trouble is I have found no way of learning the names of soldiers and casualties before then.  A dead straggler wounded and left behind after a battle might have been buried in the local parish, but I suspect there are many unknown mass graves around English battlefields.

In the English Civil War companies were raised locally by the nobility or gentry - but I don't know if any names were recorded.

[Pennines]

Hi Philip -- this is probably a most unhelpful response and probably nothing to do with what you actually want.

The subject you raised rang 2 faint bells in my head;

1. Going back ages to when surnames started I had thought that those serfs who worked for Lords of a Manor (and indeed who did get formed into small military forces when the need arose) -- obtained their surnames from that particular Lord -- viz any surnames ending 'man' or 'men' -- such as Matthewman etc, meant that they 'belonged' to that Master. However this is really going back to the 1300s or so.

2. There was a similar discussion on my own local family History Forum (Lancashire) -- some years ago, which intimated that those killed in the Battle of Preston (1715) -- were buried were they were found under the pathways of the town. I don't know why this had cropped up -- and I'm afraid I cannot recall the detail. (Age related brain shrinkage!)

It doesn't assist with your main query of the names of soldiers involved in battles from the early 1700s and before -- but the subject just brought these things to mind.

There is also a paper about burials of the dead in medieval battles -- before your time of interest though -- however you will find it here if you haven't already seen it;

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15740773.2017.1324675

I know there is a chap named Simon Fowler who has written many books and run courses about Military History -- but whether he has only concentrated on WW1 and WW2 I don't know. I know he ran courses for Pharos Tutors (all Genealogical Courses),

Maybe he does go further back, so his works may be worth exploring.

I am really sorry if this reply is of no value to you at all with what you actually want - and I do hope someone can answer your query more definitively.

[philipsearching]

I know there is a chap named Simon Fowler who has written many books and run courses about Military History -- but whether he has only concentrated on WW1 and WW2 I don't know. I know he ran courses for Pharos Tutors (all Genealogical Courses),

Maybe he does go further back, so his works may be worth exploring.

That is a brilliant suggestion.  I knew Simon when I lived in Richmond in the '80s - in what was then the Richmond & Barnes Labour Party - but haven't seen him for many years.  I'll see if I can make contact.

And - thank you for the link to the paper on medieval mass burials after battles - I will definitely read that with interest.

Philip

[Pennines]

Wow Philip -- what a remarkable coincidence you knowing Simon Fowler! Good luck with getting in touch with him. As I say he did use to run courses for Pharos Tutors -- so if you have no luck, maybe they can put you in touch.

https://www.pharostutors.com

regards June

(PS Love the comment under your photo!)

[philipsearching]

I bought one of Simon Fowler's books "Army Records For Family Historians" (2nd-hand to save a few £ !!) which answered my questions, and I have contacted him.

In brief, it is much as I had suspected:
Early muster rolls give names of civilians eligible for military service.
There was no system of muster rolls for military units.
There was no official record of military deaths.

So, to find out if a person died in service the only real options are:
Personal records kept by unit commanders (in private collections, local repositories or PRO)
Parish minute books
Local records of financial relief for military widows and orphans

I was wisely advised not to assume that if a man of military age disappeared from the records in time of war he had died in or after a battle.  Miners, seamen, fishermen and others could die and their bodies not be recovered.

After the modern professional standing army was established, muster rolls become the prime source.  Although records do not list all casualties if a person's name disappears from the roll it is possible to state (for example): "John Jones last appeared on the roll of the Xth Regiment in May 1740 when the regiment was in the Caribbean" and be confident that he died - although the date and the cause (battle, disease, or other) may never be found.

[Pennines]

Philip thank you so much for the update and for the interesting information you have provided.

Very useful -- also logical actually, when you think about it -- but it's good to know as it's not something you normally would think about.

I checked on Simon Fowler -- he is still Tutoring -- and not just Military -- he is leading about 4 courses over the next 12 months. Clearly a man who knows his stuff.