Author Topic: I have a marriage problem :  (Read 1709 times)

Offline Iain...

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I have a marriage problem :
« on: Sunday 11 August 19 18:30 BST (UK) »
Good evening All…, I have a marriage problem !   Lol…, not mine ! 
 
In fact I have two unknown marriages prior to 1815 for a certain Ralph Fraser and I am looking for his descendants.  Born in Westminster, London abt 1780 according to his discharge papers in 1818.
A Chelsea Pensioner and also an Almsman at Westminster Abbey.     

In 1818, this widower married Ann Leyton at the St John the Evangelist, Westminster on the 28 of April 1818 at the age of 38. (register Type; ‘Bishop’s Transcript’)  She is down as Ann Tayton but I’m sure that’s a fault in the transcription.  In the meantime, I don’t believe she interests me as this marriage probably didn’t produce offspring. (23 years later with the 1841 census it has no mention of any children by the name of Fraser)   
As such, I’m crossing my fingers that it’s one or both of the prior marriages that interests me.
     
Ralph signed up in 1799 at the age of 19 in the 1st regiment of Foot Guards (Scots Guards) and became an 1815 Waterloo hero being the soldier with the most medals prior, to the battle.  He was discharged in London 1818. (21 year’s service and ‘worn out’) 
It has been rumoured he suffered from syphilis, being the reason why he suffered the loss of 3 wives…, however, that’s just speculation.

Can someone provide me with a hint or two…, it would be very much appreciated.
 
Kind Regards…, Iain. 

PS 
In the 1851 census he is at West Street, Pimlico, a 68 year old Chelsea Pensioner.  Down with a certain Mary Ann Williams, 28, a dress maker.

Then there’s another Ralph Fraser and a Mary Ann Martin in Lambeth in 1814. (this Ralph was also a widower when he married Mary Ann.  Nothing to confirm whether this is the same Ralph, but nothing to say he isn't)
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Offline MaxD

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 11 August 19 19:28 BST (UK) »
Ralph Fraser of 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards (Scots Guards) died 4 Feb 1862 if that helps to limit the time frame.

MaxD

If he signed up to the 1st Regiment then he must have transferred.
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



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Offline Annette7

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 11 August 19 19:31 BST (UK) »
Ralph and Ann appear to have had 2 children both of whom died:

George Ralph Fraser, bp.16/5/1819 Southwark, bur.2/8/1826 Westminster
Ann Martha Fraser bp.1/7/1821 Lambeth, bur.26/11/1823 Westminster

Only other marriage I can find is that of a Ralph Fraser to Elizabeth Downing 7/1/1807 St. Clement Danes, Westminster - no children but an Elizabeth Fraser bur.10/9/1807 St. Margaret, Westminster.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 11 August 19 19:36 BST (UK) »
Ralph and Ann appear to have had 2 children both of whom died:

George Ralph Fraser, bp.16/5/1819 Southwark, bur.2/8/1826 Westminster
Ann Martha Fraser bp.1/7/1821 Lambeth, bur.26/11/1823 Westminster

Only other marriage I can find is that of a Ralph Fraser to Elizabeth Downing 7/1/1807 St. Clement Danes, Westminster - no children but an Elizabeth Fraser bur.10/9/1807 St. Margaret, Westminster.

Annette

Ralph Fraser married to Ann was a potato merchant
Baptism 16 May 1819
George Ralph Fraser son of Ralph and Ann of Friar St occ Potato Merchant

so doesn;t lok lke this was "your" Ralph

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 11 August 19 19:45 BST (UK) »
Quote
1st regiment of Foot Guards

It was the 3rd Regiment according to his army discharge papers.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f0170%2f131%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f170%2f671598
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette7

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #5 on: Monday 12 August 19 00:35 BST (UK) »
Ralph and Ann appear to have had 2 children both of whom died:

George Ralph Fraser, bp.16/5/1819 Southwark, bur.2/8/1826 Westminster
Ann Martha Fraser bp.1/7/1821 Lambeth, bur.26/11/1823 Westminster

Only other marriage I can find is that of a Ralph Fraser to Elizabeth Downing 7/1/1807 St. Clement Danes, Westminster - no children but an Elizabeth Fraser bur.10/9/1807 St. Margaret, Westminster.

Annette

Ralph Fraser married to Ann was a potato merchant
Baptism 16 May 1819
George Ralph Fraser son of Ralph and Ann of Friar St occ Potato Merchant

so doesn;t lok lke this was "your" Ralph

Suz

In 1841 he and Ann are together and he is described as an 'Army P.'  He may well have taken on an occupation when he left the army but by 1841 he is just living on his pension.   His name here is relatively unusual for the time and find it hard to believe that there were 2 couples named Ralph and Ann in Westminster.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 August 19 10:26 BST (UK) »
Good morning all…, and thank you.  I know the time you must have needed to find all that and it’s much appreciated. 

Max and Shaun…, my apologies !  Feel a little embarrassed at writing 1st Reg instead of 3rd. (buttons in threes)  Sorry about that !
However, thanks to my error and your corrections, it got me wondering why the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards (the Scots Guards) had so many ‘English’ joining the regiment.  ‘Ex-pats’ obviously.  However, it’s the name Fraser being Scottish that could indicate his origins. (his parents were obviously in London) As such and finding his parents could provide him with siblings. (sibling as a witness ?)   
My hopes are based on the fact that a soldier is a soldier and waiting so long before having children pushes me to believe that he must have had a family well before the Battle of Waterloo.   

Annette…, not being a doctor, if Fraser did have syphilis, I suppose that would account for the three early deaths, plus his two wives.  Hope not !

Suz…, why not ?  I’ll do some research on George because if he was working, he could have had a family. 

Surprisingly enough, RHQ knows very little about him except for his service dates and medals. 
There is one family on Ancestry that has him with his sources.  However, if I remember correctly it was me who provided him with the photo of Fraser. 
 
In the meantime, I still believe that getting married at the age of 35+ is a bit late and should have had a family in 1800 or there abouts. 
All very confusing.

Thanks everyone…, Iain. 
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #7 on: Monday 12 August 19 10:34 BST (UK) »
Presumably you've seen the various newspaper features on him , and detailed obituaries?

This snippet is from 1857
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: I have a marriage problem :
« Reply #8 on: Monday 12 August 19 10:43 BST (UK) »
Yes Shaun…, there are quite a few of them.
I even received an email from Christine Reynolds recently (Westminster Abbey Library) confirming that he would have worn those medals on his blue Almsman hooded coat.  That must have weighed a lot !

His Waterloo medal was used by the Regiment in 1985 as a model for the plaque on the wall near the North Gate at Hougoumont. 
I find the newspapers know more about him than RHQ !   ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBrVvyJXWeU
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT