Vines brickwall - Apethorpe or Laxton

[TonyV]

Old Rootschat hands interested in Northamptonshire may recall my appeals over the years for help on my Northamptonshire Vines roots. It's been a while since I posted however so forgive me for asking again.

Edward Vines was my 3x great grandfather. He married Jane in Collyweston in 1796. The marriage record states that he was from Laxton.

They had a family and moved to Bulwick where he eventually died in 1848 aged 80 according to the record. That makes his birth around 1768 but of course ages given at death were often unreliable.

There appear so far to be no Edward Vines (or any other Vines) born in Laxton around that year but he may have moved to live in Laxton after being born somewhere else. The only births that nearly match are one in 1767 in Apethorpe and another in the same year in Hambleton (just over the county boundary in Rutland) - both a similar distance from Collyweston. Apethorpe however is closer to Laxton and Bulwick than Hambleton is. 

The are several public and private family trees on Ancestry, Family Search and findmypast claiming that the Edward Vines from Hambleton was the one who married Jane. No proof is given of that claim and on examination it is clear that an original tree incorporating this assumption has been copied by lots of people who have not checked its accuracy (no surprise there!). Without further corroboration it could be either the Apethorpe or Hambleton Edwards or indeed neither of them. No such corroboration has been given. So every one of those on-line trees is potentially wrong.

Apart from the usual BMD and census searches I've tried following both sets of siblings from the two villages to see whether I could find a link that pointed one way or another e.g. Edward being a witness at a sibling's wedding. But that has failed too.

My paternal line was the one that started me off on my family history in 2004 and the knowledge of which Edward is the right one has eluded me for most of the time since. So if anyone has any knowledge that could bring my most important brickwall tumbling down I would be delighted.

Tony

[suzard]

As you probably know - at that time marriage records only show of which Parish a person was -meaning the Parish where they were living at the time (so he could have been born anywhere!)

Suz

[seahall]

HI.

There was a couple in Collyweston baptising one child at the time period but sadly not Edward.

Obviously Apethorpe could be the family to John and Eleanor as you have said have an Edward at the correct time period.

It may be dumb to say so but could Edward have been apprenticed to some one in Laxton ?

I can not see a mention of his occupation.

Sandy

[seahall]

I have noticed that Eleanor Cunnington who married John Vines was baptised at Laxton .
Therefore was it possible Edward was with her family. ?

Her father was called Edward.

Sandy

[TonyV]

Thanks Suz and Sandy for taking an interest.

I know that a parish given on an 18th century parish marriage record only refers to where the person lived at the time. However it still made sense to check for his birth in Laxton. Interestingly, at some time after their last child was born Edward and Jane moved to Bulwick which is close to Laxton and not far from Apethorpe which might suggest that this was an area Edward was familiar with from his early years. However that's hardly proof of anything

Sandy, you probably know that the 1841 census for this area of Northamptonshire is missing (and he died before the next census), so even the rudimentary information it might have contained e.g. occupation, is not available to me. I only have the marriage record, the baptisms of Edward and Jane's children and the death records.

My guess is that Edward was an ag. lab. as most of the family were at that time but I don't have access to apprentice records anyway. Where are they to be found?   

cheers
Tony

[seahall]

Hi Tony.

I guess you mean Bulwick is missing from the 1841.

This a great link for finding all missing censuses http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nmx/ 

I would have tried the Record Office for Apprentices.

Of course DNA is one way of finding your relation if other family members have done one.

Sandy

[TonyV]

Yes Bulwick and several adjacent parishes are missing, but Bulwick is probably where they were in 1841.

My knowledge of apprentice occupations is vague at best but I imagine that farm labouring was not one of them.

I did wonder about DNA. I took a Y chromosome DNA test about 15 years ago which has turned up no close cousins i.e. none with my surname or from the same neck of the woods. I know that current tests are much better but I've not got round to it so far.

Maybe it's just one of those questions that cannot be answered and the brickwall will stop my paternal  line research for the foreseeable future.