Author Topic: Family changing religion confusion  (Read 2354 times)

Offline TunjiLees

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Family changing religion confusion
« on: Thursday 26 September 19 14:53 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone,

I am confused by this family who seemed to keep changing religion!

David Lees married Anne McGuire date unknown. I know of the following children;
- Hugh Lees born 1853 Dublin baptized Roman Catholic
- William James Lees 1857 Dublin baptized Church of Ireland
- Thomas Lees born 1866 Dublin baptized Church of Ireland
- Jeremiah Lees born 1868 Limerick
On the 1901 census however, Father David Lees' religion is listen as Presbyterian (Thomas Lees remains Church of Ireland)!

I have a similar confusion with another branch of the family who emigrated to Scotland
Oliver Lees and Isabella Waldie;
- sons Thomas & Oliver Lees baptized 1853 in an Anglican (Church of England/Ireland) church in Edinburgh
- The next generation are however all Church of Scotland (Presbyterian)
- Oliver's sister Elizabeth Lees however married a John McKenzie from Country Cavan and had all of their children were baptized Roman Catholic in Edinburgh!

Can anyone think of any explanation for this?
LEES/LEE - Interested in all Northern Irish families, particularly those from Cos. Londonderry, Tyrone, & Antrim.

See the project website @ ulsterlees.azurewebsites.net

Offline hallmark

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 September 19 16:29 BST (UK) »



Many reasons...one of mine was presby, got chucked off land for cutting up a tree for firewood.

His brother who was an Estate Manager nearby  got him a place but that Landowner was C of I and   "expected" his tenants to attend his C of I Church.

Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline conahy calling

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 September 19 17:14 BST (UK) »
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=810971.msg6710522#msg6710522

Link to thread  "different religions for siblings"

Story told by my mother about a  Church of Ireland lady  who was the cleaner/ caretaker of a CofI church.
  While a Sunday service was in progress, she locked the congregation into the church.  She was sacked from her employment.  She then started attending the RC church in the same village, and was promptly reinstated!

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 September 19 18:05 BST (UK) »
David Lees married Anne McGuire date unknown. I know of the following children;
- Hugh Lees born 1853 Dublin baptized Roman Catholic
- William James Lees 1857 Dublin baptized Church of Ireland
- Thomas Lees born 1866 Dublin baptized Church of Ireland
- Jeremiah Lees born 1868 Limerick
On the 1901 census however, Father David Lees' religion is listen as Presbyterian (Thomas Lees remains Church of Ireland)!

Was Anne, David's wife alive in 1901? Which religious denomination was on census for her?
Were Hugh and Jeremiah named after members of Anne's family and William and Thomas after David's family?
 Have you not found a baptism for Jeremiah ?
Were there any children between William 1857 and Thomas 1866?
Were there any daughters?  If Anne was Catholic, her daughters may have been baptised in a Catholic church.
Cowban


Offline Sinann

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 26 September 19 18:43 BST (UK) »
Trying to find them in the Census
There is this family but Thomas is RC
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Newport/Newport_Main_Street/1699342/

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 26 September 19 18:52 BST (UK) »
Mixed marriages (one reason for changing denominations) weren't as uncommon as people think.

I know of a Presbyterian man whose third wife was Catholic. They had loads of children before marrying in Church of Ireland church where they then had all the children baptised.

Another Presbyterian man married a Catholic and their children were raised Catholic until mother died when they were young. The father's 2nd wife was Presbyterian and after that marriage the children were all baptised Presbyterian. The 1st wife's brother was a priest in a nearby area and whenever the Twelfth was celebrated there the nephew always visited his uncle (naturally still dressed with his orange sash).

Another family I knew were sometimes Catholic (both parents raised Catholic) and sometime Episcopal when husband fell out with the priest, as seemed to happen quite often. Children baptised in both churches depending on father's preference at the moment. In later years when he was ill he remained Catholic and didn't want any discussion about Protestant periods.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 26 September 19 20:09 BST (UK) »
Trying to find them in the Census
There is this family but Thomas is RC
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Newport/Newport_Main_Street/1699342/

David on the census seems to match.
Death registration of Anne Lees, Feb. 1890, Newport,  Nenagh Superintendent Registrar's District. Pensioner's wife. Informant D. Lees, husband, residence Newport.

Edit. Jeremiah may have died as a baby in Limerick in 1869. Image of register not available.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 26 September 19 20:39 BST (UK) »
I have a similar confusion with another branch of the family who emigrated to Scotland
Oliver Lees and Isabella Waldie;
- sons Thomas & Oliver Lees baptized 1853 in an Anglican (Church of England/Ireland) church in Edinburgh
- The next generation are however all Church of Scotland (Presbyterian)
- Oliver's sister Elizabeth Lees however married a John McKenzie from Country Cavan and had all of their children were baptized Roman Catholic in Edinburgh!

Can anyone think of any explanation for this?

Perhaps they weren't bothered about a particular denomination. 
Maybe there were mixed marriages.
Perhaps the Church of Scotland in the district another generation were living in had a Revival and attracted new members/lapsed members. Perhaps the Church of Scotland were better at organising Sunday schools and other activities for children and youth. Maybe C. of S. provided more assistance in times of hardship. (There were conversions in Ireland during the Great Famine for that reason. Some recipients of aid returned to the Catholic Church later.)
It may have been advantageous to job prospects to belong to a certain denomination.
Was John McKenzie Catholic? Were the children baptised after 1908? The Catholic Church imposed stricter rules on marriage and religious upbringing of children after 1908.
Cowban

Offline TunjiLees

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Re: Family changing religion confusion
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 26 September 19 21:52 BST (UK) »
I just started researching this branch so I'm still gathering info.

Was Anne, David's wife alive in 1901? Which religious denomination was on census for her?
No she indeed died in 1890 so I can't determine her religion from the census.

Were Hugh and Jeremiah named after members of Anne's family and William and Thomas after David's family?
I don't know as I haven't established who David and Anne's parents were.

Have you not found a baptism for Jeremiah ?
I just found it on rootsireland. He was baptized Church of Ireland

Were there any children between William 1857 and Thomas 1866?
I haven't found any yet.

Were there any daughters?  If Anne was Catholic, her daughters may have been baptised in a Catholic church.
Unfortunately I haven't found any yet.

David on the census seems to match.
Death registration of Anne Lees, Feb. 1890, Newport,  Nenagh Superintendent Registrar's District. Pensioner's wife. Informant D. Lees, husband, residence Newport.
Yes this is Anne McGuire.

Was John McKenzie Catholic? Were the children baptised after 1908?
I believe he was a Catholic. The couple had 10 children married and baptized at Catholic churches in Scotland 1841-1863. One record mentions him being born in county Cavan around 1815 but I haven't found him yet in any Irish record.
LEES/LEE - Interested in all Northern Irish families, particularly those from Cos. Londonderry, Tyrone, & Antrim.

See the project website @ ulsterlees.azurewebsites.net