Gertrude cummings

[Vixen999]

I have now found her marriage - address Smith St

Her occupation on her marriage is French Polisher which ties in with the 1911 census you found.
Witnesses were John Swinden & Jennie Hancox

28 Smith Street I believe.

Hi Rosie, yes that's the details I found.  But on the 1901 census ages change but same people.

[Vixen999]

I think that this may be the family in 1891 - living Queens Road, Aston.  Same address as in 1901
RG12 / 2437 f10 p16

John Cummins age 28 occ Iron Wire Drawer bn Birmingham
Fanny Cummins age 31 bn Bidford, Warwickshire
Emily Brayne age 10 bn Birmingham
Gertrude Brayne  age 11 months born Birmingham

So is fanny 2nd wife or could she have been brayne?

[rosie99]

You would need to purchase Gertrudes birth certificate to see who it names as her mother

[Rosalind146]

Just joined Rootschat and not very confident about how it works exactly, so please forgive any mistakes.

Can't tell you how thrilled I was to see your posts re Gertrude Cummings (or, to give her name registered at birth, Gertrude Brayne). My maternal grandmother was Emily Brayne, Gertrude's sister, and my great grandmother was Fanny Brayne so it looks like we're related! From the drift of your posted conversations, I expect by now that you will have gathered the facts which I know - namely that both Emily (b. 1880) and Gertrude (b. 1890) were born in Western Road Workhouse, Dudley Road, Birmingham to Fanny Brayne, domestic servant, with no father's name being given. Sadly, this was something which my grandmother (Emily) tried all her life to keep secret.

I don't know if John Cummings/Cummins and Fanny Brayne actually married (even though she is described as his wife in the 1901 census, as you know) - I've never managed to find any evidence of this. It's surprising to me that Fanny Brayne had two 'fatherless' children ten years apart. If you are still active on this site there are family stories concerning Emily and Gertrude which began to make sense when we discovered the true circumstances of Emily's birth long after her death in 1962. I would be glad to share these with you and to know if you have anything similar to tell. Maybe these should be written in a personal message.

As for the Braynes in Bidford on Avon - and you may already know this - there are many Braynes in Bidford, but the main contenders in 1861, the year after Fanny Brayne was born, are Thomas Brayne and Jane, who had several children, including an Emily. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a Fanny anywhere! The Braynes were canal people, Thomas having been born in Smethwick, along with other Bidford Braynes, and a large contingent of the family spread out to Eynsham in Oxfordshire. (See also posts re the Hambridge family which I found on this site.)

I've never been able to find a death certificate for Fanny Brayne, even though John Cummings is described as a widower in the 1911 census.

[Vixen999]

Hi Rosalind146, I believe we are related.  Gertrude was my grans mum, her daughter being Vera Swinden.  Vera married George Hadley and they had my mother.  I got stumped with Gertrudes details for some time, as there was a little discrepancy with her date of birth on one of the census's but any information you have about gertrude I would love to hear about and do you happen to have any photos of gertrude at all and her sister Emily.  There are few photos of my side of the family especially swindens and cummings.  I would love to chat further

[Rosalind146]

Wonderful to have such a prompt reply!

 Unfortunately I'm unlikely to be able to tell you anything more substantial (i.e. factual) than you probably know already about Gertrude as I only came across her in 2003 when I was looking at the 1901 census. But we did suspect for many years before that that Emily had a sister as there's a family story involving someone who must have been Gertrude's son. So no, I don't have any photos of Gertrude, but I do have at least one of Emily which I will look out as soon as possible. But I'm not sure where to attach this so that you can see it.

Also I would love to mull over the early lives of the two sisters (Emily's side of which I do know something about. I learnt quite a lot from my mother and I was 17 when Emily died, so I knew her as well). Also in the 1911 census we see John and Amelia Cummings, both younger than Gertrude, living with their father, John Cummings (widower), together with Gertie Cummings (not Brayne as in 1901); were they full/half brother and sister to Gertrude and Emily? I wonder if you have any information regarding them? I've been meaning to get their birth certificates for ages!

Quite a lot to talk about - can you advise me if I should continue to this conversation here, (including any photos/documents) or through a personal message, which to me seems more appropriate.

Very much looking forward to continuing this and delighted to have found you!   Rosalind

[Vixen999]

Think it would be good to chat personally and look forward to it. 

[Vixen999]

Ive sent you two personal messages 
quote author=Rosalind146 link=topic=820404.msg6924519#msg6924519 date=1586025365]
Wonderful to have such a prompt reply!

 Unfortunately I'm unlikely to be able to tell you anything more substantial (i.e. factual) than you probably know already about Gertrude as I only came across her in 2003 when I was looking at the 1901 census. But we did suspect for many years before that that Emily had a sister as there's a family story involving someone who must have been Gertrude's son. So no, I don't have any photos of Gertrude, but I do have at least one of Emily which I will look out as soon as possible. But I'm not sure where to attach this so that you can see it.

Also I would love to mull over the early lives of the two sisters (Emily's side of which I do know something about. I learnt quite a lot from my mother and I was 17 when Emily died, so I knew her as well). Also in the 1911 census we see John and Amelia Cummings, both younger than Gertrude, living with their father, John Cummings (widower), together with Gertie Cummings (not Brayne as in 1901); were they full/half brother and sister to Gertrude and Emily? I wonder if you have any information regarding them? I've been meaning to get their birth certificates for ages!

Quite a lot to talk about - can you advise me if I should continue to this conversation here, (including any photos/documents) or through a personal message, which to me seems more appropriate.

Very much looking forward to continuing this and delighted to have found you!   Rosalind
[/quote]

[silvery]

Rosalind needs to make one more post to send and receive personal messages.  (pms)