Confused by Birthplaces...

[Rose78bne]

Hi all,

I have been researching my 4X great grandfather, John Halliday, and I'm finding the records that I have found for him rather confusing! Any help would be much appreciated, please.

So far, I know that he was married to my 4x great grandmother, Janet Thomson, at the Church of St Nicholas in Brighton on the 23rd October 1823. They had a daughter, Catherine Elizabeth (my 3X great grandmother) who was born in Bristol, St Pauls. Her baptism record for 20th July 1824 confirms her mother's maiden name and that her father, John, was a tea dealer in Bristol.

John, Janet and Catherine all appear on the 1841 Census in Bristol, St Paul's. John is described as a labourer and both John and Janet were born in Scotland. Catherine is aged 17.

Catherine then marries my 3X great grandfather, William Landcastle/Langcastle in 1845 in Bristol. John Halliday is described on the marriage certificate as a 'Porter.'

On 25th June 1847, Janet Halliday dies aged 50. John Halliday is the informant on the death certificate, and they are living on Hill Street in Bristol at the time of her death.

John Halliday then remarried Elizabeth Lloyd in Bristol on the 6th May 1849. He is described as a widow and his father, also called John Halliday, was a farmer.

John and Elizabeth both appear on the 1851 census for Bristol, St Pauls. Both of them are living on Hill Street. John is 51 and Elizabeth 48. Again, he is described as a porter, born in Scotland. Elizabeth was born in Bristol.

Then things become confusing. I think I have found them again on the 1861 census for Bristol, St Pauls. John is 66, and Elizabeth 61 (again, born in Bristol). However, John is described as a tailor, and his place of birth Cumberland, Penrith.

Is there a possible explanation for why his place of birth is now different from the other censuses? Is it also likely that someone who had been a tea dealer, tobacconist, labourer and porter might become a tailor later in life? If it's not them on the 1861 census then I've no idea where they both disappear to after 1851...

Thank you!

Rose

[avm228]

The death of John Halliday aged 67 in Bristol, Dec qtr 1864, may be relevant.

Why a change of occupation? Perhaps he was no longer strong enough to be a porter, maybe already ailing from whatever he would die of in 1864.  The 1861 household is one of a large number at the same address - the couple are likely to have been living in poor, crowded conditions, and tailoring, perhaps of a rather basic sort, was something they could do without great physical exertion, possibly from home.

Why a change of birthplace? Possibly he had belatedly learned that although he had grown up in Scotland he had actually been born in Penrith.  Or he’d always known he had been born in Penrith but had only recently learned that it was on the English side of the border. Or maybe he wasn’t born in Penrith at all and the 1861 census return was filled in by his wife or a neighbour who somehow got the wrong end of the stick.

So often with these puzzles (which are commonly encountered) we will just never know. But it is always important to remember that our ancestors were not wholly reliable witnesses even of their own lives. Sometimes they were genuinely mistaken about the date or place of their own birth. Sometimes illiteracy or dementia or alcohol or poor handwriting will have played a part in the anomalies we find in their records, and sometimes the information recorded about them was actually supplied by another well-meaning but mistaken person at the time.

[StintonLomas]

Hi
In '51 Johns age was 51 and Elizabeth 48.
In '61 John's age was 66 and Elizabeth 61

My first thought would be "wrong couple" with that amount of age difference.

[avm228]

I’d tend towards “right couple” given how few instances there are of Halliday in Bristol at the time, but I’d be getting that death certificate to try and tie it all in.

[rosie99]

I’d tend towards “right couple” given how few instances there are of Halliday in Bristol at the time, but I’d be getting that death certificate to try and tie it all in.

Burial
John Halliday
Age at death 68
Burial 23 Oct 1864 at St Paul, Portland Square, Bristol

[Rose78bne]

Ah, thank you so much everyone! I will definitely retrieve the death certificate and see if it provides any insight.

Rose

[rosie99]

Burial
John Halliday
Age at death 68
Burial 23 Oct 1864 at St Paul, Portland Square, Bristol

Janet was also buried at St Paul, Portland Square 30 Jun 1847

[Redpointers]

Rose, John Halliday and Janet Thomson my 4x gg's too.  I'm also puzzled by the change of occupation

[Rose78bne]

Hi Redpointers,

I have found out a fair bit of information in respect of Janet Thomson - let me know if you would like me to share this with you