Clift - Dunmow Essex

[Kissimmee]

Have an Annie Baker married an Albert Victor Clift in 1912 Dunmow he was killed in 1917 and in
1922 she married a Fredrick James Clift in Dunmow

Albert was born 1887 Dunmow and Frederick was born 1880 Dunmow

If someone could please find out for me if they were brothers or related

Thanks in advance for any help

[CaroleW]

There are two ways you can find that answer.

Check the 1891 census to see if they have the same parents - www.familysearch.org

Look for their birth registrations on freebmd then use GRO online to find their mothers maiden names

www.freebmd.org.uk
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

[Kissimmee]

Thank you for coming back so quickly.  I have checked them out on the BMD that is how I got both their birth years and place but I cannot access the census without being a paying member but thank you for your suggestions

Kissimmee

[Lady Di]

You don't need to be a paying member of any of the sites that CaroleW has shown.

I believe that you will find your answer simply by checking the links provided.

OR you could spend a lot of money and order both marriage certs

[CaroleW]

Census info is free on Familysearch

If you have ever ordered a copy cert from the GRO then you will have created a login/password

Use that on the link I gave.  If you don't have a login - you can register for free and the search and info is all free

[Kissimmee]

Thanks once again for your info

[cuffie81]

Marriage:
married: 06 Jan 1912, Holy Cross, Felsted; banns
groom: Albert Victor Clift; 24; bach; groom; Felsted
bride: Annie Baker; 25; spin; -; Felsted
grooms father: James Clift; coachman
brides father: Charles Baker; horseman
witnesses: Arthur Clift, Lily Baker

I couldn't find the 1922 marriage but given the high page number it was likely a Register Office marriage (or non-conformist). But if you follow Carole and Lady Di's suggestions you should find the relationship between Albert and Frederick.

Also, if you're trying to determine the fathers of Annie children you'll probably need to widen the net. I can see five children, all registered under the name Clift, with mother's maiden name Baker. All five were baptised at Holy Cross, Felsted.

Fathers named on the baptism records:
1st Albert Victor
2nd Albert Victor
3rd George, named crossed out. See notes below.
4th Father unnamed
5th Frederick James

For the 3rd child, born 1917, there's a newspaper item re. the paternity of the child.

Essex Newsman
09 Jun 1917
Remarkable Paternity Case
- Mrs Annie Clift, married, of Felsted
- summoned George Lanham, a young mechanic, single, of South Street, Braintree
- Mrs Clift's husband a soldier serving in France
- Mr Clift's last visits home were Christmas 1915 and Christmas 1916, and no time in between
- Child born 08 Mar 1917
- Mrs Clift met Mr Lanham whilst staying with her sister, Mrs L Lanham, of 138 South Street, Braintree
- Mrs Clift had 3 [?] children besides this one


Mrs L Lanham appears to be Lily Lanham (nee Baker) who married Alfred James Lanham, in 1914. George Lanham appears to the be the brother of Alfred (again, if you use the links provided by Carole you can find the Lanham family).

Marriage:
married: 08 Aug 1914, St Michael the Archangel; Braintree; banns
groom: Alfred James Lanham; 21; bach; stage manager; 105 South Street, Braintree
bride: Lily Baker; 21; spin; -; Fairfield? Road, Braintree
grooms father: Joseph Lanham; mechanic
brides father: Charles Baker; horseman
witnesses: Thomas Stanley Williams, Arthur Baker, Emma Gunn

[Kissimmee]

Thank you so much for going to so much trouble on my behalf you must have really worked hard to find out so much and the newspaper article was a real bonus,  Following early advice I have proved that they were brothers, on the 1891 census with their parents them being James Clift & Emily Gower.

Thanks to everyone who helped

Kissimmee

[amondg]

New GRO index

Albert Victor Clift registered Braintree 1887 mothers maiden name Gowers

Frederick James Clift registered Braintree 1880 mothers maiden name Gowers

as I did plus or minus 2 years it also shows Harry Clift registered Braintree 1882 with mothers maiden name Gowers.

Looks like they were brothers