John Widder (1728-1799) from Norwich

[jhriera]

Hello,

I am researching the arrival of John Widder and Charles Widder to England from two states of the Holy Roman Empire.

As far as I know, John Widder lived in Norwich, and died there in 1799. He was a widower, but I could not find who was his wife or if they had children (in his testament there is no reference to his children). His father was from Mannheim (by 1728 it belonged to the Palatinate). To my best knowledge they were Protestants. John Widder probably had business with Jeremiah Ives the older, Jeremiah Ives the younger, John Green Baseley (they were from Norwich), and Joseph Echalaz (a basque merchant living in London). His niece was Mary Andre (daughter of his half-sister Catherine Elizabeth Schmaltz who married Johann Andre from Offenbach am Main), who married Ebenezer Mills in 1792. I am interested in learn more about the life of John Widder in Norwich, so any help will be welcomed.

Regarding Charles Widder, as far as I know he was born in Mannheim in 1770, the son of Johann Goswin Widder, a prominent civil servant in the Palatinate. To my best knowledge they were Catholics. By the 1790s he is already living in London. In 1801, he appeared as witness in a trial (Evan Jones, theft: grand larceny), and presented himself as a clerk in the house Jeremiah Ives the elder, Jeremiah Ives the younger, Joseph Echalaz, and John Green Bazeley. By the 1805 he is listed as living in Pentonville. By 1810 he partnered with Thomas Blyth and John Hullett, in the firm of Blyth & Co, with premises in Fore Street (Narrow Street), in a place that later will become known as Blyth's Wharf. He also partnered with John Hullett in the firm of Hullett Bros. & Co., I suspect he entered the firm after Thomas Hullett (older and only brother of John Hullett) died in 1811. He married in 1800 in Stepney, London, with Mary Archer. By then, they already had two children who died in 1804 within days of each other. Mary Widder (ne้ Archer) died in 1825, and his departure was published in newspaper in Oxfordshire, suggesting that she was born there, so I did some research and found a Mary Archer from Ambrosden near Bicester. I am interested in learn more about the life of Charles Widder in London (and eventually in Norwich), particularly from 1790s to 1810s, so any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

[Paco]

Welcome to Rootschat! The burial for John Widder in 1799 is on FreeREG. which I believe you have already got, but maybe not from this source. However if you type in Widder-s in the section where it says search on Rootschat you will find there are other people who have put information about him on there. It mentions for example who his parents were, which will need checking out of course.
Regards.

[jhriera]

Thanks, Paco, you are very kind. About the Widder topic you mentioned, I read the posts about Julia Widder Mills, and the link between the Widder and the Andre families. I did some internet research (familysearch, ancestry, findmypast, bna) about John Widder, and found out that he was married to Tabitha, who died in Feb. 1790, aged 64/65. But her death record states "Tabitha, wife of Mr. John Widder / late Stokes Spinster", a sort of contradictory statement. What amuse me the most is his trade in Norwich. In his will, John Widder named Jeremiah Ives and John Green Baseley, as you probably know, both of them were very prominent merchants, so maybe there is the connection with Charles Widder, then living in London. I am interested in know when John arrived England from the Palatinate, and what does he did for earn a living in Norwich.   
Thanks again.

[trish1120]

"Tabitha, wife of Mr. John Widder / late Stokes Spinster"

This means Tabitha was a Stokes pre Marriage and is her maiden name.

Trish

[trish1120]

There is a Tabitha STOKES christened 14 Dec 1722, Stepney, London to WILLIAM/MARY
(Familysearch.Org)
Age only a couple of years out from burial age for Tabitha Widder.

[amondg]

John and his wife Tabitha are buried inside the church of St George Colgate near the Font.
The stone in the floor reads In Memory Of Tabitha Widder who died 18 February 1790 age 64 years also of John Widder who departed this life 14 April 1799 age 71
 

[amondg]

John Widder married Tabitha Stokes 20 December 1761 at St Leonard Hackney London, both were of the parish
Witness are Jacob (Jonson?) and Wm. (Geaheme?)  both are hard to decipher.

[jhriera]

There is a Tabitha STOKES christened 14 Dec 1722, Stepney, London to WILLIAM/MARY
(Familysearch.Org)
Age only a couple of years out from burial age for Tabitha Widder.

Hi Trish, thank you very much for the info, it was very helpful. I knew that spinster means unmarried woman, but this was the first time that I found a record stating "late LAST NAME spinster", so I was really confused. By the way, the  London connection is quite interesting, because it means that, with some degree of certainty, John Widder lived there first since he arrived, probably from Mannheim, and then moved to Norwich.

Thanks again!

[jhriera]

John Widder married Tabitha Stokes 20 December 1761 at St Leonard Hackney London, both were of the parish
Witness are Jacob (Jonson?) and Wm. (Geaheme?)  both are hard to decipher.

Hi Amondg, thank you very much for both records. Now I have a better picture about John Widder, confirming that he lived in London for some time since he came from Germany. I still have to connect him with Charles Widder. Thanks again!!!!