HOPE/Harkness muddle

[Dumfriesdelving]

Does anyone in Dumfriesshire (Annan/ Graitney/Gretna area) know which Hope brother was the father of James Hope, brewer? Family notes state birth 1799,Rig's Farm Annan but I can only find earlier (1798) or later (1801),in Graitney. The Hopes married Harknesses/Herknesses...so I never quite get to an answer. Other family names on the birth records also recur (Irving/Irvine, Armstrong, Rea, Rome etc).Both James and his wife Ann died (1846,1844) in Knaresborough,Ann's home town.

[ColC]

Two baptisms on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk the record may give the abode?

HOPE   JAMES   JOHN HOPE/MARGARET HARKNESS    16/03/1798   Graitney or Gretna

HOPE   JAMES   THOMAS HOPE/JEAN HERKNESS    22/07/1801   Graitney or Gretna

Colin

[ColC]

Find a grave>

James Hope
Birth Date:   16 Mar 1798
Gretna, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland
Death Date:   9 Mar 1846
Cemetery:   St John the Baptist Churchyard
Burial or Cremation Place:   Knaresborough, Harrogate Borough, North Yorkshire, England
Spouse:   Ann Hope

Colin

[Gadget]

Do you have a list of James and Ann's children in birth order. They might well have used a traditional naming system which could help in determining parentage.


Gadget

[Dumfriesdelving]

Thank you for the information.

One marriage entry for possible parents of James does mention 'Rigg';cannot decipher the next word (would love it to be Farm) or the spouse's village (....scailes?).

The Knaresborough churchyard info.,photo of Ann Hope (née Turnbull)and inscription came from myself and 2 other Turnbull descendants.
It's possible that James' birthdate came from me rather than being definite.The brewery website gives 1801.
Attached is the original note written by my grandmother. Perhaps Rigg was regarded as part of Graitney/Gretna? The children are recorded in Annan parish records & 1841 census.

[Dumfriesdelving]

Hello Gadget,

Good idea! There were 2 sons, William 1835 & Robert 1837+ 5 daughters.I think Thomas Hope had a son William.Robert would have been named after Ann's brother;her father & brother were Williams.

[Gadget]

No Thomas or John though 

What were the daughters' names?

https://scottishkin.com/the-traditional-scottish-naming-system

[Gadget]

Where are they in 1841?

[Dumfriesdelving]

Hello again, folders now slightly less untidy than this morning.
The children were:
1.Elizabeth T.,2.William 3.Robert 4.Ann 5.Catharine/Kathleen 6.Emma 7.Mary Jane

They (apart from Mary Jane, b.1842) were in Port St., Annan, in 1841;James H ran the brewery until that year (bankrupt). In that census, Rigg is mentioned for George Hope (brother?)and in 1851 there's ,John, a  blacksmith b. in Rigg. I will magnify the marriage entry for James' possible parents & hope to see 'farm'.