Annie Forbes Deans b.1879 , father unknown.

[nummers]

My gt.grandmother Elisabeth Borthwick b.1845 gave birth to my grandmother in 1879 Annie Forbes Deans her father unknown.  They lived in Dalkeith and Stonehaven and I know it is a longshot but as there were many tailors in my descendants am wondering if there is a connection to the Forbes family.
Elisabeth's father was George Borthwick and her mother Jane/Janet Handly.  I have been looking for
information on Elisabeth for many years so any info would be appreciated.

[patval]

Hello, thanks for your contact.
I have been looking through our tree with any connections to the Borthwick or Deans family. I can't find any direct connection, I took the liberty to research Annie Forbes Borthwick or Dean on Scotlandspeople as I thought there may be a Forbes family member named but no, I found Elizabeth's parents listed as George Borthwick and Jean Handly married June 10 1834 Dalkieth but no Forbes mentioned there. A John Deans and Jean Lindsay had banns read in Innerwick 06th June 1834 and Haddington 15th June 1834, the villages are just 14 miles apart so I assume they lived in separate villages, however again no Forbes mentioned as Witnesses.

Our Forbes family was very large, many sons born in Stonehaven to William Forbes and Annie Glennie, these sons in turn had large families, many who I have not as yet managed to research but a lot were in the Tailoring trade, however most seemed to reside in Stonehaven.

An earlier post from Suzieque14 has listed many of the family if you have read that..

As far as I can see Elizabeth was widowed prior to Annie's birth (John Deans having died at the Garscube Colliery, Maryhill on 4th June 1872) and as there seems to be no Forbes in her family the chances are that the connection will have been with the father of Annie, which may be difficult to find. Have you thought to look at the census forms around the time of Annie's birth, you may find Elizabeth residing close or even with someone named Forbes...

I hope you have success finding more about Elizabeth, sorry I couldn't have been more help.. I now have the certificates for Annie's birth and the marriage of Elizabeth to John Deans, also the marriage of George Borthwick to Jean Handly if you don't have copies and would like them I will pass them to you.

Regards Patricia
x

[Forfarian]

.... Ah, I see that Annie was born in Dalkeith and also registered as Annie Forbes Borthwick. Also that Elizabeth Borthwick had married John Deans in Dalkeith in 1865.

If you haven't already got it, you need to go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and view that marriage certificate. It will confirm the names of her parents and tell you how old she was.

Elizabeth Borthwick or Deans died in Carnock, Fife in 1912, aged 66.

According to the IGI they had three children: Jane Ann Pringle Deans, born 1864 in Dalkeith; John, born Glasgow 1866; Charles, born Glasgow 1872.

In 1871 they were in Maryhill, Glasgow: John Deans, 27 iron miner, born East Lothian; Elizabeth, 26; Jeannie, 6; John, 4; Mary, 3; George, 1.

In 1881 Elizabeth is a widow, living in Dalkeith with Jane, 16; John, 14; George, 11, Charles, 9; Annie Forbes, 1; and grandmother Jane Borthwick, 71. So John must have died between 1871 and 1871 ....

.... sure enough, John Deans, aged 28, died in New Kilpatrick in 1872. His death certificate will tell you how he died.

Noting that Elizabeth parents were George and Jane, that she named her second son George and her eldest daughter Jane, her first son John and her second daughter Mary, there's a good chance that John's parents were John and Mary.

Where does Stonehaven come into it?

If the Forbes in Annie's name was from her father, your best chance of finding out is from the Dalkeith Kirk Session records. These are not available online, but can be consulted in the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh or in certain local archives in Scotland.

[Skoosh]

my own Forbes connections were glassworkers, Edinburgh/East Lothian!

Skoosh.

[nummers]

Many thanks to Patricia and Skoosh for your help.  I am in New Zealand so unable to call into local parishes.   My mother was unwilling to speak of her family.  Annie came to New Zealand with her husband William Saunders Ellis (a Stonehaven family, John Ellis was William's father and was a shoemaker there).  Annie died in Christchurch in 1947 but I know very little of Elisabeth.  Is there anywhere there could be a chance of a photo?   Patricia you offered a copy of 2 certs which would be most appreciated thank you.

[Forfarian]

I know very little of Elisabeth. 

Did you read my reply #2 above?

[nummers]

Still trying to find the elusive Mr Forbes who was the father of my grandmother, Annie Forbes Deans and while I have discovered new info he hasnt turned up  The Dalkeith Kirk Sessions is online with a page for children without fathers or similar Elisabeth Borthwick, her mother and Annie  were not there.  I am presuming she was helped out financially as i guess it would be very difficult surving in those days on your own bearing in mind her husband John Deans died in 1872 and she had other young children. 
Any more advice would be appreciated.

[Forfarian]

The Dalkeith Kirk Sessions is online with a page for children without fathers or similar Elisabeth Borthwick, her mother and Annie  were not there. 

Where exactly did you find this? I ask because in most cases the Kirk Session records would contain several paragraphs about each case they investigated, and the name of the child is almost never recorded in the kirk session minutes, so I am wondering if perhaps you have found a summary, extract or index rather than the full original document.

The full document is in the care of the National Records of Scotland, reference CH2/84/64. According to their catalogue it has been digitised and the digital images may be seen in the NRS Search Rooms on the 'Virtual Volumes' system. This means that they can be viewed in some other archives, for example, Hawick, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, but cannot be viewed online. (There have been, for some time, plans to make the kirk session minutes available on Scotland's People, but so far this has not actually happened.)

I am presuming she was helped out financially as i guess it would be very difficult surving in those days on your own bearing in mind her husband John Deans died in 1872 and she had other young children. 

If a widow was unable to support her family in the 1870s, and her extended family could not or would not help, her recourse was to the Parochial Board, not to the kirk, so the kirk session would not have a record of it. I do not know whether or not the Dalkeith Parochial Board records have survived, and if so where they are, but I would start by asking Midlothian Archives https://www.midlothian.gov.uk/info/458/local_and_family_history/30/midlothian_archives