NEW TOPIC - Birth/Baptism Record CLIFT

[Carole DN]

I am trying to find the birth registration or baptism of Joseph Ronald Clift in Minchinhampton, Gloucestershire, c1882. No entry is listed for either of the two dates I have for his birth: 15 October 1882 (shown on Baptism record at Holy Trinity. He was baptised or re-baptised at the age of 15 years), & 29 November 1882, (on 1939 Register).
The 1891 census shows Joseph age 7 years, together with his younger brother James Clift (age 5 years), in Stroud Workhouse. Then no trace of Joseph or James, until Joseph appears at the age of 15 years in the Gordon Boys Home, West End, Woking, Surrey, and at the age of 15 years he is baptised (C of E), on 30 November 1897, at Holy Trinity, West End, Surrey. I am wondering if this is because he was previously baptised into another religion as a baby.
I would add that he is known as Joseph Clift until his marriage certificate (1904) when he is shown as Joseph Ronald Clift and his father as Joseph James Clift, deceased, occupation: Coal Merchant. I can find no trace of his father either.  Joseph married Alice Lilian Robinson, in Chelsea, London, and lived there until he died in 1950 (age 68 years).  I would be grateful for any help or information anyone can give me to find Joseph (Ronald) Clift and his parents in Minchinhampton. Thank you. Carole

[Annette7]

Since there are no birth entries for either Joseph or his brother James I would suggest they were illegitimate and births not registered.

In 1881 there are 2 females - sisters Julia Clift bc.1863 Minchinhampton and Annie Clift bc.1865 Minchinhampton - in Minchinhampton (other female Clift's either too old or too young to be considered mother of the boys).

The 2 sisters were illegitimate daughters of a Caroline Clift and both baptised in 1868 (together with a son Henry bc.1866).   Caroline Clift was herself illegitimate, born 1839, daughter of a Harriet Clift.

Somewhat of a precedent going on here!

In 1887 at Rodmarton banns were read on 10/17/24 April for George Gwinnett and Julia Clift but can find no trace of a marriage actually taking place.  Was Julia the mother of Joseph and James I wonder and her prospective husband refused to take on her 2 illegitimate sons hence them ending up as they did?

Or was their mother Annie?  Unfortunately, I cannot see what became of her after 1881.

Annette

   

[Carole DN]

Hi Annette
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.  I had wondered about the boys being illegitimate. I agree either of the 'Clifts', you have come up with, could be their mother and its good to have someone else's opinion and help.  Thank you for taking the trouble to get back to me and the search goes on. But you may have narrowed it down for me.  Good wishes  Carole

[Capetown]

?
??

Looking at GloucestershireBMD Index

Mother's Maiden name: CLIFT

Child Surname

GOULD Joseph - 1882, Stroud, Office, Stroud, Michinhampton  **
GOULD James - 1886, ditto  ****


*** There is a flag by the entry - and shows a link to two mother's Former Name - but same entry number i.e. DAWN and CLIFT - (GRO INDEX just gives DAWN)

The GRO Index - is a Dec Quarter

GOULD, Joseph - Mother's Maiden Surname: DAWN

GRO Reference: 1882, D Quarter in Stroud Volume 06A Page 349
--


GRO Index -

GOULD James - mother's maiden Surname: HIND

GRO Reference: 1886, M Quarter in STROUD, Volume 06A Page 360
----


**** The one for James in 1886, gives two mother's maiden names again: i.e. CLIFT and HIND


---

There are families of GOULD and HIND in Michinhampton - but I can't find any marriage.

[Capetown]

I can only call up the mother's maiden name as CLIFT on the GloucestershireBMD - not on the GRO INDEX

[Capetown]

Re: Julia CLIFT

Again Gloucestershire BMD

Julia CLIFT married George GWINNETT - Cirencester, Rodmarton, St Peter 1887

and the family are there on the 1891 Census Rodmarton

Julia aged 28, born Minchinhampton

plus Son Harry aged 9 months.

[Capetown]

?

There is on the 1911 Census

Ancestry has transcribed place of birth as Woodchester, Chester, England - when in fact the census says, Woodchester,  Gloucestershire, which is about 2.5 miles from Michinhampton

1911, Census, Paddington,

James CLIFT - Servant aged 25 - married under one year born Woodchester, Gloucestershire
and his wife

Sarah Ann Vincent CLIFT - Servant - aged 27  born Folkstone Kent


Marriage 1910 - Canterbury Kent

James CLIFT and Sarah A V EDWARDS

- There is a WW1 Record Card for a James CLIFT.

[Capetown]

There is a tree on Ancestry for James CLIFT

says he was born in 1886 in Michinhampton, Gloucestershire - father: Joseph CLIFT

goes on to say, James and his brother Joseph are both resident The Union Work House. et

Military 1903, Stroud Gloucester and he did marry Sarah Ann VINCENT etc.

[osprey]

there's a possible marriage for Annie Clift june qtr 1891 Thornbury vol 6a pg 353 with Silas Cole on the same page.

1911 census for Annie Cole shows her as 45 born Woodchester, Gloucestershire

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71P-TVD

ignore this one, her mother was Emma - sorry

Birth reg for Julia Clift has the middle name of Evans. Her mother Caroline married Joseph Hatherall jun qtr 1871 Stroud. The 1881 census for the family has a Henry Evans aged 15 who seems to be the Henry Clift from the 1871 census.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27J-X84Z