Looking for Robert Patterson's (m. 1813 Newcastle) birth and parents

[teach3r]

Good evening and thank you in advance for any help that can be given.

My 4xGreat Grandfather is Robert Patterson who married Eleanor Dunn at All Saints, Newcastle on 22 March 1813.

One of their children that I know of was William (1814-1882 my 3xG grandfather).  I have explored parts of this section of my family before on rootschat (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=790785.0) and am very grateful for all the help that I got.

My problem now is finding Robert's parents.  Usually I would find the father's name from the parish marriage and work backwards from that to match up the names in a baptism.  Despite their being several transcriptions of the marriage online, none of them give the father's name or Robert's age.  I have found two Roberts baptised in Newcastle between 1785 and 1795 but without a connection to a father's name or a birth date range I can't see how I can make sure that I have the right person (or even if he was born in Newcastle.  Maybe he was born across the border?).

Any help in tracking and confirming Robert's birth date and his parents would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

[ColC]

The freereg marriage notes that they were both of the parish and the witnesses.

Witness1   Ann WILSON. Witness2   Jonan. SCOTT

Williams baptism notes the following
Person abode   Ouse Burn. Father occupation   Labourer

The following baptism might be worth a look.

Robert PATERSON   Baptism   06 May 1798   Northumberland   Newcastle upon Tyne: All Saints : Bishop's Transcripts

The notes on Freereg names the parents as William Patterson & Elizabeth Richardson.

Person abode   This chapelry
Father occupation   Waterman
Notes   4th son. Mother is daughter of Cuthbert Richardson of Gateshead.


Colin

[teach3r]

Thank you Colin - your help and time is very much appreciated.

Whilst I agree that the 1798 baptism might be the right one (and that only being aged 15 when he got married isn't an issue) I'm still a little nervous about how "certain" I can be that it is the right Robert.

As William's marriage transcription doesn't have the parents' names will I ever be able to be certain?

Although the transcription doesn't have parents' names, should there be an original that does?

Regards,

Nic

[ColC]

When Robert Patterson married at All Saints, Newcastle on 22 March 1813, on the records I have seen his wife was noted as Eleanor or Elizabeth Dunn.

If he was the one born below he would be 1 week short of his 15th birthday, unusual but not impossible;

Name   Robert Paterson – Parents William, a waterman & Elizabeth
Birth   29/03/1798
Baptism   06/05/1798 All Saints, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland.

The only record I can see for children for Robert & Eleanor All Saints is your William 28 Aug 1814, his father noted as a Labourer.
However noted below there are a number of baptisms for a Robert & Elizabeth, abode New Rd, Robert a waterman. All at Newcastle upon Tyne : All Saints

Elizabeth PATTERSON   Baptism   03 Nov 1816   Northumberland

Robert PATTERSON   Baptism   20 Aug 1821   Northumberland

Mary PATTERSON   Baptism   13 Oct 1823   Northumberland

There may be more on Freereg & Ancestry by coincidence John & Cuthbert Patterson had children at All Saints in the same period both noted as a watermen

Their father William Patterson a waterman. Older brothers of Robert.

Cuthbert PATTERSON   Baptism   04 Oct 1789   Northumberland   Newcastle upon Tyne : All Saints : Bishop's Transcripts
   
John PATTERSON   Baptism   23 Mar 1788   Northumberland   Newcastle upon Tyne : All Saints : Bishop's Transcripts

So maybe by 1816 Robert progressed from Labourer to Waterman and Eleanor used the name Elizabeth.

I’m not sure if any of this helps but do you have any later information on Robert or Eleanor/Elizabeth?

Colin

[teach3r]

Thank you again Colin,

So far, I have ...

In 1841, I have Eleanor living with her son William in Osborne Street, Kingston upon Hull.
William is married to Mary (Lawton) and they have young children Mary Ann and William.
His sister (Eleanor's daughter) Sarah Jane is also with them.  There is no sign of Robert.

In 1851, Eleanor is living at 15 Myton Street, Kingston upon Hull.  This time she is shown as the head and is a widower (place of birth Deptford, Kent about 1781).  Her sons William (b. Newcastle upon Tyne about 1816) and John (b. Durham about 1828) are living with her.

I will have to take stock of what I have so far and what you have kindly added.  I guess I am looking for a burial of Robert sometime between his son John being born in 1827 and his wife Eleanor being without him in 1841.

Nic

[teach3r]

Potential parish register deaths for Robert could include:

Agra, India 1837, aged 38, Private of the Honorable Companys En Regt.
There are a couple of possibles in Tynemouth in 1832 (no dob)

Potential civil deaths for Robert include:
3 in 1839-40 in Durham (I guess I could order the certs and see who registered the death).

[jonw65]

Could Sarah Jane really be meant to be 4 in 1841, and was a daughter of William and Mary?
Baptism of Sarah Jane at Holy Trinity, Hull, 6 May 1837
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRQB-QHV

Marriage at same place, 23 Sep 1861, to Thomas Briney, Sarah Jane's father is William Patterson.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN7Y-8VC

When Robert Patterson married at All Saints, Newcastle on 22 March 1813, on the records I have seen his wife was noted as Eleanor or Elizabeth Dunn.

Image of BT says Eleanor Dunn, no mention of Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X47S-47V?i=750&cc=1309819&cat=1809362

[JenB]

As William's marriage transcription doesn't have the parents' names will I ever be able to be certain?

Although the transcription doesn't have parents' names, should there be an original that does?

Pre-1837 marriage records only rarely contain the names of the parents. Usually only the names of the bride and groom and those of the witnessses.

[JenB]

Here is the marriage (Durham Bishops Transcripts), as you can see, there is no provision for parental names https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-X47S-47V?i=750&wc=9K5Q-DP8%3A13617901%2C26205601%2C26304601&cc=1309819