Author Topic: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630  (Read 1315 times)

Offline tempogold

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Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« on: Sunday 09 February 20 11:51 GMT (UK) »
 I recently purchased the reprinted book  Men and Arms on the Ulster Settlers 1630 by R.J Hunter and prepared by John Jonston . My understanding was that IN Co Londondery Sir Thomas Philips would settle small numbers --perhaps 25 families at a time on the land. I was interested to find on the Muster two John Latham's for the area . One with Sword and Caliver and one listed as as bearing no arms. Most likely the same family .
  I am wondering how to find out from were this Latham family came from/ and what trade they may have had or giving the lack of records even follow them forward. Perhaps there are other publications I should look at . I am not local so visits to Proni would not be an option. Grateful for any pointers.

Many Thanks

Offline JACK GEE

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 February 20 12:42 GMT (UK) »
Best of luck Tempogold. I too have had a good look at the Muster Rolls of Londonderry. Sadly there is little linking information unless you get lucky with a 'Gatekeeper' cousin. It is hard work trying to piece the snipets of information together. There are research papers out there that may give background. But it is hard work. Try googling the works of the following 'Forrest' Ulster Plantation and Stephen McCracken. Best of luck in your journey thru the genie soup that is Northern Ireland family history.
In this forum give specific details of the persons you are chasing - eg BDM - there are a couple of 'johnnie on the spot' that maybe of assitance.
Cheers Jack Gee.
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Offline tempogold

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 February 20 13:50 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the steer. Always impressed with folks knowledge.

Offline owenc

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 February 20 19:41 GMT (UK) »
I visited PRONI and found little help in looking in estate records. Most of the names listed are wealthy sub tenants and usually there is not a location listed.

Your best bet is a Big Y dna test.

For what it’s worth, I believe my great grandmothers Smith line came with Sir Thomas Phillips.


Offline tempogold

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 February 20 20:35 GMT (UK) »
Thanks.

Offline california dreamin

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #5 on: Friday 20 March 20 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi tempogold

I found a resource some years ago in PRONI as I am tracing my 'native' Irish ancestors .  It was the Census of Ireland 1659, compiled by Sir William Petty.  He  was also responsible for the civil survey, and it records the names of persons with title to land ( tituladoes ), the total numbers of English and Irish living in each townland, and the principal Irish names in each barony.  A few years later than you are asking about but maybe worth searching this out?

CD

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #6 on: Friday 20 March 20 11:50 GMT (UK) »
I have heard a couple of talks given on Bob Hunter’s book. One or two general points that I recall were that the men listed there would normally all be adults and of fighting age, so perhaps between 17 and 50. The weapons they had tended to indicate their relative wealth. So in your case, the John Latham with a sword and caliver was quite well off, whereas the other with no arms was poor. Most people could usually borrow at least a pike, so if you had no arms at all you were probably a labourer.

Tracing forward from 1630 is virtually impossible unless you have a very wealthy or notorious family who might show up in the few sources that exist. But the average family at that time were able to live their entire life beneath officialdom’s radar.

A lot of Plantation settlers fled Co. Londonderry as a result of the 1641 uprising. Some returned later, some did not. So being there in 1630 doesn’t guarantee they were still there 15 years later.  The 1659 census compiled by Sir Wm Petty is more commonly known as Pender’s Census.  It analyses the population by townland. It only names the wealthy land owner families (the tituladoes) as California dreamin has explained. For the rest of the population, it’s just numbers of “Scotch”, “English” & “Irish.”

There were Undertakers who were granted land in Ireland around 1610 - 1625 because they “undertook” to plant it with settlers from their Scottish & English estates as well as constructing key buildings, and in those cases if you look to see where they came from, you can infer that some of their early tenants probably came from the same place.  However Sir Thomas Philips was in a different class. He was a servitor, so he was granted land in return for having fought for the crown. It’s not clear (to me) how servitors got their tenants. Presumably if they had estates in Britain the same process could have applied. But I am not certain about that.
Elwyn

Offline california dreamin

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #7 on: Friday 20 March 20 15:37 GMT (UK) »
Your reply is very interesting Elwyn.  I wonder if it is worth tempgold looking on the TNA website to learn more about Sir Thomas Phillips? Given what you have said, and perhaps finding out more about him might lead to the origins of the Latham's?   I have just had a look using Sir Thomas Phillips +Ireland as search terms with some results

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%22sir+thomas+phillips%22+%2B%22ireland%22

CD

Offline owenc

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Re: Tracing English families that where in Co Londonderry 1630
« Reply #8 on: Friday 20 March 20 15:56 GMT (UK) »
I have a Smith line that I believe came over with him also. No way of determining if they did and from where.