Pennines, Thank you for your comments Unfortunately I haven’t a marriage cert For Rueben as they could have got lost anywhere, and my mother is not here to give me anymore information,RIP, but I think the Marriage date to Mary Powell was 1852 if that is any use to you, I am short on time left to be here my self , so I am trying to go back as far as I can, I wish to leave a family tree for my children, if that date I have given is of know help I will try and do what you advise, and pay for the birth certificate.thank . jesse123