Author Topic: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's  (Read 2694 times)

Offline romawi

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British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« on: Sunday 05 April 20 01:09 BST (UK) »
Hi, I have hit a little bit of a brick wall regarding my gggranfather Thomas White (1825 - 1881 born Stoneleigh Warwickshire), who was a Private in the Army Service Corps. I believe he served in Ireland from 1858 through to 1866 approx.
During this time he married an Irish woman called Mary and had the first 4 of 6 children.
William White (1859)
John (1861)
Elisabeth Ann (1864)
Maud/Maria (1866)
Then had Margaret (1886) in Woolwich Kent
Mary Ann (1870) Aldershot
In 1971 census Thomas, Mary and all 6 children are living at an army base in Aldershot, Surrey.
I assume he married Mary in Ireland sometime around 1858. I can find no records of Mary, Thomas or his family in Ireland around this time, nor any evidence of the birth of their children in Ireland. Can anyone maybe suggest where to look. I have tried Irish genealogy but without success.
Huge thanks for any help you can give.
Biddiscombe (Wiltshire).
Watson (Stockton on Tees)
Jamieson (Wolviston)
Rothwell (Salford/Heywood, Lancs - Stockton, Durham.)
Paisley(Hampshire)
White (East Stoneham/Liverpool)
Taylor (Liverpool)

Online ShaunJ

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 05 April 20 08:23 BST (UK) »
Possibly Maria's birth registration? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03564/2312910.pdf

Mother named as Maria White formerly Moran.

BUT GRO index entries for births of Margaret and Mary Ann suggest mother's maiden name Scarr.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aghadowey

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 05 April 20 08:44 BST (UK) »
Civil registration of births in Ireland didn't start until 1864 so you won't find birth certificates for children born in Ireland before that date.
Civil registration of marriages also 1864 for all marriages but from 1845 onwards for non-Catholic marriages which include registry office ones.
This is why you probably haven't found anything in Irish Genealogy database yet. In both cases for earlier records you need to search for church registers. If Thomas' wife Mary was Catholic and the children were baptised as Catholic then you might find details in R.C. Parish registers-
https://registers.nli.ie/

However, you might be better off checking all possible English records for clues first to narrow down locations. For example,
Have you followed wife Mary and all of the Irish-born children in census records to see if a more exact place of birth than Ireland is recorded? The 1911 census is the one that most often seems to include a place but worth checking all of them just in case.

Another possibility might be Army registrations but someone here will likely know more about those.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline romawi

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 05 April 20 09:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much. The details for Maria born in barracks looks a possible - I will follow this through and see if I can find a Moran or Scarr as mothers maiden name connected to any other of the children or for a marriage around 1858 for John and Mary/Maria wedding.
I have checked all census for further details of birthplace for Mary and the 4 older children but all just say Ireland. I still need to track both Elizabeths and Maria's marriages to find them in the census's later than 1881, so will try this.
Thomas's name is actually listed as John Thomas White at birth so this needs exploring too.
Some useful leads thank you
Biddiscombe (Wiltshire).
Watson (Stockton on Tees)
Jamieson (Wolviston)
Rothwell (Salford/Heywood, Lancs - Stockton, Durham.)
Paisley(Hampshire)
White (East Stoneham/Liverpool)
Taylor (Liverpool)


Offline aghadowey

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 05 April 20 09:04 BST (UK) »
Following the lead for possible birth of Maria in 1865 I looked at R.C. register for Curragh Camp & found baptism of Elizabeth Ann on 22 Nov.1863- mother listed as Maria Scales?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634455#page/37/mode/1up
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline romawi

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 05 April 20 09:14 BST (UK) »
Oh wow, that was very kind thank you - that sounds very promising doesn't it? Not too different from Scales to Scarr I guess but Moran quite different. That two children were born with correct names and birth years at the same barracks to parents Thomas and Maria looks very promising.
If we can locate William born 1859 and John 1861 approx we may be able to narrow down Maria's maiden name.

Thanks you so much for all the help. I live in New Zealand so off to bed soon but will catch up my research in the morning.
Cheers
Biddiscombe (Wiltshire).
Watson (Stockton on Tees)
Jamieson (Wolviston)
Rothwell (Salford/Heywood, Lancs - Stockton, Durham.)
Paisley(Hampshire)
White (East Stoneham/Liverpool)
Taylor (Liverpool)

Online ShaunJ

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 05 April 20 09:32 BST (UK) »
Margaret was baptised in the Church of England (Woolwich St Mary Magdalene, 2 February 1868, born 28 January, parents Private Thomas White, Commissariat Staff Corps, and Mary)
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online ShaunJ

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 05 April 20 10:03 BST (UK) »
FindMyPast has two army files for him, but no marriage information included.

He was stationed in Hong Kong from February 1850 until August 1857, first with 59th Foot and then 2/10th . Transferred to Commissariat Staff Corps in September 1859.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007307647%2F00262&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7307647%2F11%2F262

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F2153%2F165%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F2153%2F461787
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online heywood

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Re: British Army Ancestor in Ireland 1860's
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 05 April 20 10:28 BST (UK) »
Following the lead for possible birth of Maria in 1865 I looked at R.C. register for Curragh Camp & found baptism of Elizabeth Ann on 22 Nov.1863- mother listed as Maria Scales?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634455#page/37/mode/1up

Baptisms
Edward White 27th December 1860 -mother Mary Scahill  :-\.  Curragh Camp

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634455#page/21/mode/1up

William White 6th March 1859 mother Mary Scahill Mullingar

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635196#page/136/mode/1up
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk