Author Topic: Arthur White born around 1896  (Read 1432 times)

Offline AuntieMomo

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Arthur White born around 1896
« on: Monday 20 April 20 01:00 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm looking for an Arthur White, who was born around 1896.  His father was Frederick Albert White and he had a 2 older brothers George Henry and Walter, and a much younger sister Ellen.  In the 1911 England Census, they lived in Canning Town with the Hall family (widow Jessie Hall and her children and grandchildren).  He married my great-grandmother and on the register entry it said Jessie Hall was his mother, but she couldn't have been, and also his father was a widower.  So his mother is unknown to me.

So, my great-grandmother was Scottish and lived in Falkirk, which is in Stirlingshire/Central Scotland.  She had a child age 16 in 1916, father not around.  In 1918 she then had a second illegitimate child, father's name not given.  She then got married in 1919 to Arthur White.  She seemed to be living with Arthur at the time, along with her father and sister.  Arthur was a dock worker, as her father was at that time.  It's not known if Arthur was the father of the second child born in 1918.  However, Arthur seems to have disappeared, and my great-grandmother went on to live with and have other children with another man, and common knowledge was that this man was her husband. 

Arthur was from Canning Town, and I don't understand how he managed to end up in Scotland, unless dock workers were somehow migrant? Or he just got on a ship and ended up there?  I don't know if he fathered one or more children with my great-grandmother.  A third child was registered under his name, and then under the name of the new 'husband'.  I can't find a record of a divorce in Scotland. The marriage with Arthur wasn't a church wedding, it was a declaration in front of witnesses and seemed to be an 'irregular marriage' by Sheriff's warrant, whatever that means.

Four years later, Arthur went on to marry someone called Rose Amelia Bartlett in 1923 in Canning Town.  On the family tree that I found, there are no further details of Arthur, and his wife Rose went on to marry someone else. Arthur is being very elusive and I'm having trouble finding any other details of him or his family.  Unfortunately, I can't access online the birth record of the third child from Scottish records, to see if he was ever named as the father. My mother knew all about the man that my great-grandmother went on to live with and thought that they were married - they weren't - and had never heard of Arthur White.  My grandmother would have known though, because it was on her marriage register entry, that her mother had been married to Arthur White, with absolutely no mention of the second 'husband' (he was not a nice man apparently).

Does anyone have any knowledge of the Whites, particularly Arthur, or dock-workers in the 1910s - 1920s?  I would love to find out what happened to him. He might have been in and out the workhouse as a child.  Any information or advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Momo

McKenna McCann Gallacher Kelly Denny Dunipace Falkirk Stirling Longriggend

Offline maddys52

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #1 on: Monday 20 April 20 04:00 BST (UK) »
Re the "irregular marriage" - a marriage declared in front of two witnesses, see this info on the Scotlands People website:
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/article/irregular-marriage-scotland

Also some discussion here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=639319.0

Offline chempat

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #2 on: Monday 20 April 20 07:48 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm looking for an Arthur White, who was born around 1896.  His father was Frederick Albert White and he had a 2 older brothers George Henry and Walter, and a much younger sister Ellen.  In the 1911 England Census, they lived in Canning Town with the Hall family (widow Jessie Hall and her children and grandchildren).  He married my great-grandmother and on the register entry it said Jessie Hall was his mother, but she couldn't have been, and also his father was a widower.  So his mother is unknown to me.

The households of the Whites and the Halls in 1911 are separate - they just have the same house number.

Have you attempted to find the births of any of his siblings, and the family in 1901?

Offline chempat

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #3 on: Monday 20 April 20 08:02 BST (UK) »
This could be the family in 1901 - leave it to you to check out, ages and orders mixed:
At Plaistow, Plumstead, West Ham
Frederick White 41  Southampton
Ellen White 40  Dartford
Thomas White 19   Dartford
Fredrick White 12  Sancombe ?
George White 10  Plumstead
Arthur White 8   Plumstead
Walter White 5   Plumstead

1911 (always look at the original image)
Fredrick Albert White 55
George Henry White 20
Walter White 17
Arthur White 15
Ellen White 3


Offline chempat

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #4 on: Monday 20 April 20 08:13 BST (UK) »
'Arthur went on to marry someone called Rose Amelia Bartlett in 1923 in Canning Town.'

Who is his father at this wedding?

How do you know it is 'your' Arthur?

Added:
transcribed, original not showing
Arthur White 
Marital status:Single
Married on 2nd September 1923 at St Matthias, Canning Town, Essex
Father:Frederick Albert White
Spouse:Rose Amelia Bartlett

Online heywood

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #5 on: Monday 20 April 20 08:23 BST (UK) »
The wedding of Arthur and Rose is indexed in Essex marriages on Ancestry but no image.
There is a link to https://www.essexarchivesonline.co.uk//ancestry.aspx?id=1203391 where a copy can be ordered.
Arthur is shown as single and his father as Frederick Albert.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online heywood

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #6 on: Monday 20 April 20 08:31 BST (UK) »
Here is your thread re the Scottish events and mentioning Arthur.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=829294.0

Have you taken the information re Arthur from a published tree? You mention a tree and also Frederick and Jessie Hall but as pointed out, they are two separate households.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online heywood

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #7 on: Monday 20 April 20 08:36 BST (UK) »
He married my great-grandmother and on the register entry it said Jessie Hall was his mother, but she couldn't have been, and also his father was a widower.  So his mother is unknown to me.

Do you mean the marriage register or 1911 census?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cuffie81

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Re: Arthur White born around 1896
« Reply #8 on: Monday 20 April 20 09:39 BST (UK) »
Full marriage details:

Marriage
married: 02 Sep 1923; St Matthias, Canning Town, West Ham; banns
groom: Arthur White; 24; bach; ships fireman; 28 Peter St
bride: Rose Amelia Bartlett; 21; spin; -; 28 Peter St
grooms father: Frederick Albert White; labourer
brides father: William Charles Bartlett; labourer
witnesses: William Charles Bartlett, Julia? Mary Lewis
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Hunt Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson