Author Topic: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please  (Read 863 times)

Offline adamjack

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 09 May 20 03:09 BST (UK) »
Oh wow osprey, you are amazing!! Thank you so much!  :D ;D

Offline osprey

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 09 May 20 17:57 BST (UK) »
glad to help. Finding the Herberts mentioned in the will was a good moment.

 ;D :D

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline adamjack

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #11 on: Monday 11 May 20 09:23 BST (UK) »
Hello osprey

I have on an old family tree I was given that the maiden name of John Tudor's wife Margaret was Jenkins. I haven't found a marriage for them either however.

Offline adamjack

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #12 on: Monday 11 May 20 10:03 BST (UK) »
Hi again osprey

You found John Tudor's burial on 23 Aug 1773 in Llangovan and found his will (written in 1769) which mentioned his wife Margaret and children John, William, Thomas, Walter, Mary and Ann (my ancestor) as well as her husband Thomas Herbert.

Out of the above children, you found a possible baptism for Ann on 4 Feb 1747/8 in Llangovan (no parents names listed so she was possibly an adult when she was baptised) and I have found a possible baptism for John and William -

John Tudor, 10 Dec 1743, Llangovan (Johannes filius Johannes Tydur baptizatus 10 Dec 1743) (If this John baptised in 1743 was the father of the Thomas Tudor buried on 8 Jun 1760 in Llangovan and listed as the son of John, then he was probably born earlier than 1743. Or Thomas was the son of another John Tudor, possibly the father of John baptised in 1743)

William Tudor, 26 Dec 1750, Llangovan (William son of John Tudor Junr was baptised on the 26th day of December 1750).

I don't know if the above William's father John Tudor Junr. was the same John Tudor who was the father of John baptised 1743. I don't think the man recorded as John Tudor Junr. on his son William's baptism was the John Tudor who made his will in 1769 and died in 1773, as I found the burial of John Tudor Junr. on 28 Nov 1763 in Llangovan.

Margaret, the wife of the John who made his will may have been his second wife, as there was a John and Susanna Tudor having children in Llangovan and Cwmcarvan in the 1740s. I found baptisms -

Margaretta daughter of Johannis and Susanna Tudor baptised 13 Jan 1744/5 Cwmcarvan
Susannah filia Johannes Tudor baptizata 6 Mar 1748/9 Llangovan

And burials -

Susanna daughter of John and Susanna Tudor was buried April the 23rd 1751 Llangoven
Margaret Tudor Junr was buried April the 26th 1751 Llangovan

Or the John Tudor who married Susanna may have been a different John Tudor to the one who married Margaret??

If the son Thomas mentioned in the will of John Tudor in 1769 was the Thomas Tudor who married Catherine Harris in 1755 in Llangoven and had children baptised in 1757, 1759 and 1763 in Llangoven, then his father cannot be the John Tudor who was the father of the Thomas Tudor who was buried in 1760 (mentioned above), as I don't think John and his wife would have named a second son Thomas if they already had a living son with that name. And the Thomas buried in 1760 may have been born before the Thomas who married in 1755.

The son Walter mentioned in the will was probably the Walter Tudor who married Ann Prichard in Llangovan in 1760 and who had a child baptised a month later.

I searched for a baptism of the John Tudor who made his will in 1769 and died in 1773 but didn't find a likely baptism in Wales on Findmypast. There were four possible baptisms in Herefordshire though -

John Tudor born 1696 in Bromyard, Herefordshire, son of Walter;

John Tudor, bapt. 2 Oct 1704 in Weobley, Herefordshire, son of John and Margaret;

John Tuder bapt. 1719 in Leominster, Herefordshire, son of Walter & Bridgett;

Johannes Tudor bapt. 31 Jan 1721 in Llangarron, Herefordshire, son of Thomas & Jane.

On Findmypast there are no burials of a John Tudor in Herefordshire between 1696 and 1776, so it appears that all four John Tudors that the above baptisms are for lived to adulthood.

Just trying to flesh out the family, any help would be very much appreciated, thank you.


Offline osprey

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #13 on: Monday 11 May 20 17:26 BST (UK) »
I wouldn't assume not finding a burial in Herefordshire means the child survived. Herefordshire is a county with few parish records available online. But out of those, I'd say Llangarron is the more likely as it's nearer Monouthshire. Or he may have been baptised in a Monmouthshire parish whose records are not online.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #14 on: Monday 11 May 20 18:38 BST (UK) »
just found a baptism 3 May 1719 in Dixton for John Tudor son of George & Alice.
siblings
Mary 6 Dec 1708
Elizabeth 15 Jan 1710/11
Susannah 14 Oct 1716
Mary 22 July 1722
George Tudor married Alice Woare of St John the Baptist, Hereford 17 April 1708. Possible burial for George 13 Nov 1722.
From Forest of Dean site
https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Dixton
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline adamjack

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 13 May 20 01:55 BST (UK) »
Hi osprey

Thank you so much for that information from the Forest of Dean site and it's great you've found a possible baptism for my John Tudor and his possible parents and siblings. When I read what you listed for his parents marriage, I thought his mother's maiden name was probably Weare and not Woare as it has been transcribed on the Forest of Dean site, as I have Weare ancestors as well. And I found the marriage on Findmypast and Alice's name is listed there as Weare. So if the son of Alice and her husband is my John then I may be related to Alice through the Weare family as well!

I searched for a baptism of Alice's husband George Tudor and found the likely baptism below which took place in Dixton where George and Alice married and where their children were baptised -

George Tudor bapt 31 Dec 1682 Dixton son of Israel and Bridget. He had siblings Israel baptised 24 Aug 1673; Elizabeth baptised 9 Nov 1670 (year was maybe 1671 as parents marriage date listed as 29 Dec 1670, both are only transcriptions on Findmypast, no register images) both in Dixton and Joane baptised 23 Jul 1678, Mary baptised 11 Jul 1680 and James baptised 7 Jul 1676 all in Monmouth.

Israel Tudor and Bridget Williams married 29 Dec 1670 (maybe meant to be 1669 as daughter baptised Nov 1670 or her baptism date mistranscribed) in Hentland, Herefordshire.

However, there is also another baptism of a George Tudor on 8 Jan 1683/4 in Monmouth son of George & Jane. George Tudor & Joane Lewis married 16 Feb 1678/9 St Mary Monmouth (other children found - Mary born 14 Sep 1704 baptised 15 Sep 1704 St Mary Monmouth & Ann baptised 19 Sep 1707 St Mary Monmouth).

However, I think the baptism of the George in Dixton is more likely as Dixton is where the John Tudor baptism took place and where his parents were married, do you agree? Also, there is a marriage of a George Tudor to Anne Thomas spinster (both of the parish) on 23 May 1703 at St Mary Monmouth, so this could be the George baptised in 1683/4 in Monmouth.

A George Tudor was buried on 13 Oct 1711 in Dixton - this could be the George baptised in 1683/4 in Monmouth or his father. It can't be the George who married Alice Weare in 1708 as you and I found baptisms of their children up to 1722 and you listed his possible burial on 13 Nov 1722 in Dixton (which could be why their last child was baptised that year). There is a notation against the burial of George Tudor in 1722 that he was a pauper, so he would not have left a will.

An Israel Tudor was buried 28 Feb 1728/9 in Dixton but the transcription on the Forest of Dean site does not indicate if this was Israel Tudor Snr or Jnr, however I think it was probably Israel Snr as his wife Bridget was also buried in Dixton - Bridget Tudor buried 21 Jul 1711 in Dixton note: wife of (illegible). Also, Israre (Israel) Tudor was buried 6 May 1720 in Monmouth - this was probably Israel Jnr or possibly another Israel Tudor.

I couldn't find a will for Israel Tudor or George Tudor Snr (father of George Tudor bapt. 1683/4) or of George Tudor Jnr (bapt. 1683/4 Monmouth) on Findmypast. I'll have a look on the Library of Wales site too. Is there any assistance you can offer with trying to determine the correct baptism of George Tudor (father of John bapt. 1719 Dixton)? Thank you.

Offline adamjack

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 13 May 20 02:08 BST (UK) »
Just searched the Library of Wales site. No will for Israel Tudor there. Two wills of a George Tudor, but one was dated too early (1676) and he was from Shropshire and it didn't mention a son George and the other one was dated too late (1851).  :-[

Offline osprey

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Re: Baptisms of William TUDOR and Anne MORSE please
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 13 May 20 13:30 BST (UK) »
I'd suggest sketching out a tree for each family group you can identify and see who belongs where, find marriages and burials for them, wills if there are any. Even wills of uncles & cousins might have mentions. Best of luck!

 :D
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb