Spillanes of Ballyvirrane

[Nettie]

Hello All,

I have two other old threads on Rootschat in regards to this family, however all details from those have been incorporated here.

I have the following information for my 2 x great grandparents:
Peter Spillane (1846-1927) m Ellen Sullivan ( ?-? )  13 Feb 1872
All their records are around Ballyvirrane (with numerous spellings)
Children:
Hanorah 1872-
Mary 1874-
Johanna  1877-
John – 1879-1879 (12 days – convulsions)
Kate – 1880-1880 (4 months – whooping cough)
Ellen 1881-1882 (14 days – convulsions)
Bridget 1884-1947 (Great Grandmother)
Catherine 1886-1973
Denis 1888-1970
Patrick 1891-1891 (2 hours – delicate from birth)

Additionally, I found a matching death record for
Nanno Spillane 2 March 1892  (18 years Influenza/ Pneumonia)
But I can’t work out which daughter – most likely Hanorah but I can’t confirm.
I also found a death record for a 2 yo Mary Spillane in 1877 but the image is not online for me to check, so I’d have to order it.

I have no confirmed birth or death record for Ellen, estimated year of birth is 1852 (she was 20 getting married). Patrick is the last child I can find born in 1891. Peter is a widower in the 1901 Census. So there is a 10 year window. I did apply years ago to the GRO and they couldn’t find her either, so her death may not have been registered.

I know when an uncle and I visited the Spillane grave in the old cemetery (I believe it was Old Milltown  Cemetery – across the fields from the Abbey) he said his uncle Denis (1888-1970) had said that when he died he’d be number 21 in the grave, which would make sense with all those babies.   

Peter’s parents were John Spillane (1802-1870) (of Glencuttane) and Hanora Sullivan (?-?) m 02 Feb 1845 (no parents listed / image not available)
We are fortunate that there is a surviving Extract of the 1851 Census which details this family in Ballyvirrane.
Their children were
Peter (1846-1927) My 2 x Great Grandfather
Mary  (1847-)
Catharina (Katie) (1849-)
Patrick (1852-1927)
Michael (?-?)

Hanora’s parents are unknown.

Any information on this line would be appreciated, especially in regards to the women who have limited information. Thank you for your time.

[pkkerry]

Hi Nettie,
I came across your Glencuttane reference for the John Spillane Hanora Sullivan marriage. I was wondering had you considered that Hanora might be the one from Glencuttane. The marriage records back then usually only had one address down and who's to say it wasn't the brides.
The Spillanes are recorded in a number of houses in Ballyvirrane in the 1828 tithes. The same can also be said of the Sullivans in Glencuttane. The nearest Spillanes to Glencuttane are in the neighbouring townland of Shannera.
If looking for Sullivans in Glencuttane in Killorglin church records, Glencuttane was recorded as Glins and usually had a N S or W before it to say in which direction of the Glen the event occured. The church took in many of Glencuttane's neighbouring townlands too when they used this Glins address. This makes trying to sort out the records a lot harder.
The church also recorded family nicknames as surnames in some cases. So for example the Sullivans could be recorded as Crone, Brack, Cuck etc.. Hope this helps you in some way.

Pat

[Nettie]

Thanks, so much, Pat. It's great to have some local knowledge into this. I will revisit the records with this information in mind and see where it takes me.  Thanks again, I do appreciate you stopping by.

[Ghostwheel]

Nettie,

Regarding your Spillane/Sullivan marriage record from 1845.  I think that all these records were indexed wrong, and that, when one address is given, it is ALWAYS actually the bride's address that is given, not the groom's.  (of course, sometimes the groom might be from the same place)  In all the parishes that I've studied, I believe this was the case, and definitely in Killorglin.

It makes perfect sense, if you think about it.  Not in every case, but traditional society tended to more patrilocal.  Meaning that men tended to stay closer to where they were born than women, so, in those circumstances, if you write down one address, it makes more sense to write down the woman's.

A word about why they did this: it is sensible to be nearer to your brothers, if you are expecting trouble.  Chimps actually behave the same way.

Of course, in a tenant society, men often moved around. 

pkKerry,

I believe that the different letters for cardinal directions paired with Glins referred to different valleys around the Reeks, rather than all to different parts of Glencuttane, which was part of W. Glins.

I haven't studied it too closely, but I think W. Glins was Glencuttane, Breanlee, and, by my theory, Gortloughra.

I found this old post somewhere, and made a note of it, though, I'm afraid I don't have the web address:

West Glins = GlancuttaunWest Glins = Breanlee

North Glins = Coolroe, KnockaneNorth Glins = Lisleibane, Knockane
North Glins = Gerarha

North Glins = Meallis
South Glins = Bunbinnia, KnockaneSouth Glins = Gearhameen, Knockane
South Glins = Esk, Knockane
South Glins = Derrylooscaunagh?

South Glins = Derrynafeana, Killorglin

South Glins = Curragh More , Knockane

South Glins = Cloghernoosh, Knockane

William D RomanskiRhode Island

You can see it is missing Gortloughra.  I'm not 100% sure it was part of W. Glins, but I think it was.