Origins of John Marsh

[ALewis]

Hi, Please could someone help me to try and identify the baptism/parents of my 5x great grandfather John Marsh.

He married Mary Rogers by banns, 18th February 1783, Sutton On The Hill, Derbyshire. He was of this parish and Mary was of Brailsford. Both could sign their names and witnesses were Elizabeth Rogers and Francis Clark.

John and Mary are confirmed as the common ancestors with A DNA cousin match. Mary was baptised 1765 in Brailsford. She was still alive in the 1851 census, birth place/year confirmed. However I don't know where John was baptised, there are several possibilities in the surrounding parishes.

They had the following children baptised in Mackworth:

1784 Esther
1785 Hannah
1787 John
1789 William
1791 Jenny (Mary Rogers had a sister Jenny Rogers born in Brailsford)
1795 Joseph
1797 Mary Ann Marsh (my 4x great grandmother)
1799 George
1802 Eliza
1804 Zillah
1807 Charles

John Marsh was buried 1st April 1834 in Mackworth, aged 82 (born about 1752). Abode was Markeaton.

I also found a wonderful mention of John Marsh in Google Books and know he was a labourer. It mentions:

"1814 - The annual July show of the Derbyshire Agricultural Society, took place on the 15th ult. The Duke of Devonshire's annual premium of five guineas was awarded, by the committee of the society, to John Marsh, of the parish of Mackworth, labourer, for having by his industry brought up nine children, now living, without parochial relief".

Thank you in advance for any help or advice. :-)

[ColC]

The nearest I can find is on Ancestry, sadly the OPR is faded but his father was John.

John Marsh   Christening (Baptism)   18 Feb 1750   Duffield

Only John noted but followed by the abode but this is not clear?

Martha Marsh   Christening (Baptism)   24 Mar 1746   Duffield

Father John no mother listed.

Han Marsh   Christening (Baptism)   2 Oct 1753   Duffield

Sarah Marsh   Christening (Baptism)   20 Jun 1757   Duffield

Very few of the baptisms at Duffield list the mothers name but they do list the abode.

Possible marriage for John.

John Marsh   Marriage   6 Feb 1745   Duffield   Martha Annable (Surname not clear)

I note that Mary's father was Henry.

Colin

[ALewis]

Hi Colin,

Thank you for your response and providing those records, much appreciated.

The baptism you saw 1750 in Duffield to father John is one of the possibilities I saw.

The other possibile one is John Marsh baptised is 29th April 1753 in Horsley to mother Mary, no father listed.

Duffield and Horsley are about 5 miles apart.

Thanks again,

ALewis

[ColC]

For info.

John Marsh natural son of Mary Marsh of Tanton Cross
Baptism 29/04/1753 Horsley, Derbyshire

Sarah Marsh natural daughter of Mary Marsh of Tanton Cross
Two Baptism records Horsley, Derbyshire 25 Nov 1750 & 25 Nov 1751
One is probably parish the other Bishops Transcript?

Nothing else clear for Mary at Horsley such as Marriage or Burial.

Colin

[ALewis]

Hi Colin,

Thank you for providing further details on Mary Marsh of Horsley. It's interesting that you can't find any further information on Mary in Horsley. I have found some further information since yesterday, that might help.

There is a Sarah Marsh marrying Joseph Chatfield, 18th June 1776 in Mackworth by banns. Joseph was of Brailsford, a labourer and Sarah of this parish. Marriage witnesses were Thomas Beardmore and Henry Rogers.

Now this is very interesting. John Marsh married Mary Rogers and her father was Henry Rogers (my 6x great grandfather) of Brailsford. I have checked Henry's marriage record to Mary Foster 12th October 1763 in Brailsford. The two signatures for the Henry Rogers appear to be identical. So this is good evidence that Sarah Marsh was a relative of my John Marsh.

This just added to my confusion, as John Marsh (born 1750 in Duffield) had a sister Sarah (born 1757 in Duffield), that you kindly told me about. John Marsh (born 1753 in Horsley) also appears to have had a sister Sarah born 1750/1751 in Horsley.

I have found the following burial on Ancestry today - John Marsh, buried 31st January 1758 in Duffield, father John. So it looks like we can now discount John baptised 1750 in Duffield.

There was another John Marsh baptised 9th March 1760 in Duffield to father William. This one doesn't appear to have a sister Sarah though. So can probably discount this one too.

Focusing on John Marsh born 1753 in Horsley, this appears to tie in with my John Marsh's age at
burial and being born about 1752.

There is a baptism of a Hannah Marsh, 8th August 1756 in Mackworth, mother Mary (no father listed). Hannah is a name that runs in my Marsh family of Mackworth.

No more records can be found of a Mary Marsh after 1753 in Horsley but a Mary pops up in Mackworth in 1756 having a daughter. Her daughter Sarah married 1776 in Mackworth. Her son John (my 5x great grandfather) had all his children baptised in Mackworth.

I wonder if we could be onto something? It's been very useful that you have confirmed you couldn't find any further information on Mary Marsh of Horsley - thank you. :-)

Kindest regards,

ALewis

[ColC]

I’m not sure if this will help?

I note that a Henry Rogers had children baptised at Brailsford prior to his marriage to Mary Foster.
John 8 Jan 1758, Sarah 2 Nov 1760.

Henry Rodgers of Brailsford married Ellen Banks otp both signed X Mugginton 25 Apr 1755

Brailsford below

Henry Rogers a Pauper was buried 28 Jan 1762, presume father of below?

Henry Rogers 78 (1734) was buried 13 Aug 1812

Henry Rogers father Henry Baptism 18 Jul 1734

Colin

[ALewis]

Hi Colin,

Thank you for taking the time to research the Rogers family of Brailsford, I am very grateful.

You have confirmed much of what I have with my research. I wasn't aware of the older Henry Rogers being a pauper when he was buried, that's interesting.

The older Henry Rogers married Anne Frogget in 1733 in St Werbugh's, Derby. They married by licence. Henry was a widower and a husbandman. No age given. Anne, a spinster, aged 30 years and upwards. Both of Brailsford.

I believe Ann was baptised 8th April 1701 in Ashbourne to Father George Frogatt of Clifton.

This is as far as I have gotten with the Rogers, not sure who Henry married before Anne or his baptism.

Thanks again,

ALewis

[ALewis]

Hi Colin,

Just to add to the confusion, it looks like there may have been two Henry Rogers in Brailsford at the same time in the 1760s.

The details you provided on the Mugginton marriage was very useful and it got me thinking. Henry Rogers who married Mary Foster in Brailsford could sign his name. The Henry Rogers who married Ellen Banks in 1755, Mugginton couldn't sign his name, only with an 'X'.

Found the following burials today on Ancestry:

Ellin Rogers buried 2nd June 1763, Brailsford, wife of Henry Rogers
Catherine Rogers buried 3rd September 1763, Brailsford, wife of Henry Rogers

It's a shame that the children's baptisms don't list their mother's name. Time for more digging and see what I can find.

Kindest regards,

ALewis