Author Topic: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent  (Read 268 times)

Offline TraceyD

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Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« on: Sunday 16 August 20 10:01 BST (UK) »
I have posted previously about my great grandmother Phoebe Hughes born 1868 in Chatham, Kent, but some considerable time has passed since then, and I am still seeking information about her later life, as I can find no record of her death. Plus I also keen to trace another boy related to her born in around 1893, that Phoebe claimed was her sisters son(?), that she was looking after as her sister had died a week after his birth, but again I can find no evidence of this being the case. I am also seeking more information on her daughter Charlotte Hughes born 1908 at the Dartford workhouse, who later married a Frederick Scales.

Over the years I have found a lot of information regarding Phoebe's life but am keen to complete some of the gaps. This is what I already know;

Phoebe was born in 1868, Chatham, Kent. In 1871 Phoebe and her family were living at 24, South Street, Queensborough, Sheppy, Kent and in 1881 the family were living in a travelling van at Canal Field, Milton in Gravesend, Kent.

Phoebe arrived at Wandsworth Union workhouse, Swaffield Road, off Garratt Lane, Wandsworth, London, on the 7th April 1899, pregnant with her son John (my grandfather) and had with her another young child (name unknown?). It was recorded that she had been living in several boarding houses; McKies Lodging House, Surrey Lane, Battersea for about a month, White's Lodging House, Rope Yard Rails, Woolwich for a week or two, and then Burkes Lodging House off and on for about 6 months prior to her arrival at the workhouse. Phoebe stated that her parents were gypsies and had lived in caravans, never having a fixed home that she can remember.

Six years earlier Phoebe had given birth to a child (male) in an area which she described as Hastings Heath, the boy sadly died at the age of three weeks. Researching Hastings Heath it is thought that Phoebe must have been making her way to the Hastings workhouse which was located on Frederick Road in Ore. There is what could be described as heath land on the East Hill, usually referred to as Firehills, to the east of Hastings Old Town, going towards Fairlight. After this she ran away from home to be with her eldest sister Sarah Ann (b.1860). From the workhouse records it was understood that her sister had given birth to a child five years earlier but she had died a week after the child was born, this child (believed to be male, name currently unknown) had arrived with Phoebe at the workhouse. Although through further research Phoebe's eldest sister Sarah Ann went on to marry Aaron Goldsmith in Canterbury in 1879, so could not have possibly died after child birth in around 1893, therefore the mother of this unknown child still remains a mystery.

On the 6th May 1899 Phoebe gave birth to her son John Hughes Davis (my grandfather) at the workhouse in Wandsworth and he was baptised on the 18th May 1899. On John's birth certificate Phoebe stated that she was a flower hawker and gave her address as 11, Point Pleasant, Wandsworth, London. Phoebe left the workhouse on the 20th May 1899, and I unable to confirm from the records whether she left with her new son and her sister's (?) young child.

In the 1901 census Phoebe is recorded as Phoebe Davis living with her son, John, and his father John Davis. I have been unable to find any evidence that Phoebe and John Davis ever married, and Phoebe used both the surnames Hughes and Davis throughout her life depending on what was being recorded.

On the 28th February 1908, Phoebe gave birth to her daughter Charlotte Hughes in the Dartford workhouse, at 37 West Hill, Dartford, Kent. On Charlotte’s birth certificate Phoebe gave her address as The Old Gaol, Lowfield Street, Dartford and her occupation was a Flower Hawker.

The 1911 census found Phoebe and her daughter Charlotte living as lodgers at 27 West Street, Gravesend, Kent. Phoebe's occupation was stated as a charwoman.

Phoebes parents were Samuel Hughes (born 17th January 1827) and Diana Hughes, I have some information on them and the census returns - but no earlier information e.g. their parents. 

If anyone is able to shed some more light on the life/death of Phoebe Hughes or are linked to this family in some way, it would be lovely to hear from you.  :)


Goodson / Crawley / Smith / Foster / Fitkin / Woodward - Hertfordshire
Brightman - Bedfordshire
Ricketts / Marsh / Davis / Gale - London
Bays / Hall / Giffard - London & Surrey
Stokes - London, Leicestershire & Staffordshire
Batt - London, Hampshire, Wiltshire & Australia
Palmer / Gamble - Leicestershire
Leggett - London & Suffolk
Perrin / Paice / Carter or Curtis - Hampshire

www.fallenleaves.co.uk

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 16 August 20 10:27 BST (UK) »
When you say Sarah Ann Goldsmith née Hughes can’t have died after childbirth in c1893, do you mean you have traced her alive after this date?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline TraceyD

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 16 August 20 10:46 BST (UK) »
No, you make a good point I have not, for some reason I was thinking along the wrong track as she had married. This is where another pair of eyes can be so helpful.  ::)

I cannot find a Sarah Ann Goldsmith dying c1893, but there is a Sarah Ann Hughes aged 33 dying in Dec qrt 1893 (on free BMD) in Ecclesall Bierlow although this is a very long shot if the correct Sarah Ann.

Goodson / Crawley / Smith / Foster / Fitkin / Woodward - Hertfordshire
Brightman - Bedfordshire
Ricketts / Marsh / Davis / Gale - London
Bays / Hall / Giffard - London & Surrey
Stokes - London, Leicestershire & Staffordshire
Batt - London, Hampshire, Wiltshire & Australia
Palmer / Gamble - Leicestershire
Leggett - London & Suffolk
Perrin / Paice / Carter or Curtis - Hampshire

www.fallenleaves.co.uk

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline avm228

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 16 August 20 10:55 BST (UK) »
Sarah and Aaron Goldsmith are indeed alive in 1901, living in Sittingbourne.

Children are:

Albert 12
Alfred 8
Nellie 7
Ada 6
Beatrice 5
Harriett 11 mo
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 16 August 20 11:04 BST (UK) »
Actually I am not sure about this Sarah. Have a look at Aaron Goldsmith aged 51 in 1911 (Sittingbourne). This family needs more investigation.

Sarah’s age also dramatically between 1881 and 1891. I am wondering whether the Sarah whom Aaron is with from 1891 is not your Sarah née Hughes.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline TraceyD

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 16 August 20 11:05 BST (UK) »
Thank you. Phoebe's only other sister was Lydia born 1877 - so it may be possible that the boy was her's but she would have only been 16/17.
Goodson / Crawley / Smith / Foster / Fitkin / Woodward - Hertfordshire
Brightman - Bedfordshire
Ricketts / Marsh / Davis / Gale - London
Bays / Hall / Giffard - London & Surrey
Stokes - London, Leicestershire & Staffordshire
Batt - London, Hampshire, Wiltshire & Australia
Palmer / Gamble - Leicestershire
Leggett - London & Suffolk
Perrin / Paice / Carter or Curtis - Hampshire

www.fallenleaves.co.uk

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline TraceyD

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 16 August 20 11:07 BST (UK) »
OK, makes sense, I will need some further research into Sarah Ann Hughes then, perhaps she did die a week after childbirth. 
Goodson / Crawley / Smith / Foster / Fitkin / Woodward - Hertfordshire
Brightman - Bedfordshire
Ricketts / Marsh / Davis / Gale - London
Bays / Hall / Giffard - London & Surrey
Stokes - London, Leicestershire & Staffordshire
Batt - London, Hampshire, Wiltshire & Australia
Palmer / Gamble - Leicestershire
Leggett - London & Suffolk
Perrin / Paice / Carter or Curtis - Hampshire

www.fallenleaves.co.uk

Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 16 August 20 11:15 BST (UK) »
At least some of the “Goldsmith” children were registered as Clunn:

Sep qtr 1888: Prince Albert Thomas Clunn mmn Moore, Milton
Jun qtr 1891: Elizabeth Elsie Clunn mmn Moore, Milton
Sep qtr 1892: Alfred Ernest Clunn mmn Moore, Milton
Dec qtr 1893: Ellen Alice Clunn, Milton
Mar qtr 1895: Ada Lilian Clunn, Milton
Jun qtr 1896: Beatrice Edith Clunn mmn Moore, Milton
Jun qtr 1900: Harriett Pretoria Clunn mmn Moore, Milton
Dec qtr 1902: Olive Lilian Clunn mmn Moore, Milton

It’s not clear how many of these were in fact fathered by Aaron Goldsmith, but he and the younger Sarah are together as a family by the time of the 1891 census, so perhaps at least Elizabeth onwards.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Phoebe HUGHES Born 1868 Chatham, Kent
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 16 August 20 11:27 BST (UK) »
Here’s what I can see for your Sarah’s likely children:

Sep qtr 1880 Aaron Goldsmith mmn Hughes, Milton (but he is 8mo old “Ernest” in 1881)
Mar qtr 1883 Moses Goldsmith mmn Hughes, Milton
Mar qtr 1885 Samuel Goldsmith mmn Hughes, Milton
Jun qtr 1887 Diana Goldsmith mmn Hughes, Milton (died 1888)
Sep qtr 1889 George Henry Goldsmith mmn Hughes, Milton
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)