Author Topic: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?  (Read 1229 times)

Offline fisherj

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Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« on: Tuesday 25 August 20 17:50 BST (UK) »
I am hoping someone can help me solve yet another puzzle in my family tree, whether Joseph Marsden b. 1837 changed his surname to Lewes Johns between 1861 and 1864.  And why?

(A long email I know, but it is all very complicated!)

Joseph Marsden (b. abt 1837 in Silian) was one of the children of Jonathan Marsden (b. 1790 Winster, Derbs) and Elinor (Jones). 

Joseph Marsden married Mary Price in Silian, Lampeter in 1858. 

In 1861, they are in High Street Lampeter:
   Joseph Marsden 24 yrs head Painter b. Silian
   Mary Marsden 32 yrs wife b. Llanfihangel Croyddyn
   Anne Eleanor Marsden 0 yrs dau b. Lampeter
   plus workman and servant

I can't find him/them in 1871 or afterwards.  But...

In 1871, there is this family in Llangybi, Cards which I think might be the same people.  I can't find them earlier than this.  (Perhaps painter=printer??)
   Joseph Lewes Johns  34 yrs Printer b. Lampeter
   Mary Lewes Johns  40 yrs wife b. Llanafan
   Ann Lewes Johns 10 yrs dau b. Lampeter
   Harriet Lewes Johns 6 yrs dau b. Lampeter

The birth of a Harriet Mary Adelaide Johns was reg in Sept qtr 1864.  So if he changed his name and if this is his daughter Harriet, then he did so between 1861 and 1864.

Jonathan Marsden's mother's surname was Jones but I can't find a Lewes/Lewis Jones/Johns to connect to the family.  Could he have changed his name because he no longer wanted to be associated with his father's family??

In 1876, Joseph Lewes Johns, widower, married Emma Sophia Marsden (b. Tredegar 1852 - 1927).

If Joseph Lewes Johns was the same person as Joseph Marsden, Emma Sophia Marsden would be his (half) first cousin.  Their fathers would be half brothers.

She was the daughter of David Marsden (b. 1818 Llanfair, Cards).

In 1881, Joseph Lewes Johns is a hotel keeper in Swansea with his wife and 3 children, one of whom was called Jonathan Marsden Lewes Johns. 

And in the household is Elen Louisa Rees 20 yrs, niece to the head of the household.  Elen Louisa's mother was Anne Marsden, sister to Joseph Marsden b. 1837 Silian.  Does this prove that Joseph changed his surname to Lewes Johns? 

Elen Louisa Rees was certainly not the niece of Emma Sophia Marsden.  Though perhaps the term "niece" was used very loosely.  Or perhaps Elen Louisa was indeed the niece of Joseph Lewes Johns/Marsden.

Sorry it's such a long winded comples tale.  But I would be very grateful for any ideas that might help.
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies

Online osprey

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 18:37 BST (UK) »
newspaper announcement of change of name - Notice is hereby given...

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4352576/4352580/15/
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 19:02 BST (UK) »
Joseph Lewes Johns was an executor of the will of David Lewes Jones, vicar of Mothvey/Myddfai who died 28 Nov 1870. The other executor was Joseph Jones, farmer of Plas in Silian, brother of the deceased. Joseph Lewes Johns noted as of Llangyby, gentleman, nephew of the deceased.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Pennines

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 19:24 BST (UK) »
Osprey -- I just poked my nose into this -- and I have to say - what fantastic finds you have made for fisherj!!
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.


Online osprey

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 19:31 BST (UK) »
why, thank you!  ;D

Just found a very involved will made by Mary Jones, mother of Eleanor, wife of Jonathan Marsden. The change of name could be because of a legacy.

ttp://www.rootschat.com/links/01pun/
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Pennines

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 19:57 BST (UK) »
When I have a query -- I want you 'on the case' please!
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 20:34 BST (UK) »
do you have family in Wales & Cornwall? My normal stamping grounds.

 ;)
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Pennines

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 21:30 BST (UK) »
AAw 'Flippin eck' Osprey -- I expect my username gives the answer to that one!
Places of interest;
Lancashire, West Yorkshire, Southern Ireland, Scotland.

Offline fisherj

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Re: Is Joseph Marsden b. 1837 the same person as Joseph Lewes Johns?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 23:58 BST (UK) »
Osprey - thank you so very very much.  As you can imagine from my deliberations, I had spent ages on this and I am just really grateful to get the confirmation he was the same man!

But I still don't understand the connection between a legacy and the change of name.  What am I missing (apart from a few little grey cells...)?

Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies