Obtaining Death Certificate for someone who died at sea

[WythenshaweWench]

Mary.

Baptism: 7 Oct 1900 St Mary and St John the Baptist (Pleasington Priory), Pleasington, Lancashire, England
Maria Anna Philips - filia Joannis Philips & Juliae (formerly Filbin)
    Born: 1 Oct 1900
    Godparents: Joannes Walmsley; Agnes Heywood
    Notes: Postea matrimonium contraxit cum Patricio Waters filio Jacobi et ____ in
           ecclesia St. Mariae ad Pleasington die 30 Novembris 1929 coram Geraldus Riley et Anna Waters
    Baptised by: Jacobo Lawless M. Ap.

I don't recognise this as Mary - 'my' Mary who appears on the 1911 census was born in 1896 xx

[WythenshaweWench]

Another child of Julia.
Baptism: 13 Apr 1902 St Mary and St John the Baptist (Pleasington Priory), Pleasington, Lancashire, England
Joannes Eduardus Philips - filius Joannis Philips & Juliannae (formerly Pilbin)
    Born: 4 Apr 1902
    Godparents: Jacobus Philips; Henrietta Eliz. Philips
    Baptised by: Jacobo Lawless M. Ap.

Possibly died.
Burial: 19 Jul 1902 St Mary and St John, Pleasington, Lancashire, England
Joannes Phillips -
    Died: 16 Jul 1902
    Age: 3m
    Abode: Moulden
    Buried by: J. Lawless M. Ap.

I don't recognise this one either.  She and her first husband James (b 1874, D 24 Feb 1906 aged 32) did have a son, also James - born Jan 1901, died 10 Apr 1902, broncho pneumonia / meningitis)

Jayne x

[WythenshaweWench]

I wonder if there's any way now, to prove that this 1870 Joseph is really 'MY' Joseph?

Jayne xxx

[wilcoxon]

Mary.

Baptism: 7 Oct 1900 St Mary and St John the Baptist (Pleasington Priory), Pleasington, Lancashire, England
Maria Anna Philips - filia Joannis Philips & Juliae (formerly Filbin)
    Born: 1 Oct 1900
    Godparents: Joannes Walmsley; Agnes Heywood
    Notes: Postea matrimonium contraxit cum Patricio Waters filio Jacobi et ____ in
           ecclesia St. Mariae ad Pleasington die 30 Novembris 1929 coram Geraldus Riley et Anna Waters
    Baptised by: Jacobo Lawless M. Ap.

I don't recognise this as Mary - 'my' Mary who appears on the 1911 census was born in 1896 xx

This isn't the right Julia, she is still with John and 2 daughters in 1911. Ah , worth a try.
: RG14; Piece: 25169

[WythenshaweWench]

Have you discounted this 'elderly'  couple who are in Manchester in 1939 as being Joseph and his new lady friend

Marriages Mar qtr 1931   
Lang    Elizabeth Ann   
Scaife  Joseph       
Manchester N.    8d   655

Hi Rosie

Sorry to be a pain :-)

Did you find this in the 1939 Register, because I can't find it.
All I can see is a Widow, Annie Scaife, living with a daugher and 2 sons (jane, Joseph and Herbert).

Can you help please as I think you might have found him!

Jayne xxxxx

[WythenshaweWench]

Hi Cuffie

Thanks for all the divorce paperwork - it makes fascinating reading!

I've responded to you in a reply further up and also send you a PM.

Jayne x

[wilcoxon]

Sent a PM.

[cuffie81]

I couldn't find any connections for those addresses, other than the one obvious one, the St Augustine Street address, which has a connection to later records (already mentioned).

Looking at the families it appears that Julia was the wife of James Morris (1974-1906) and the daughter of Robert and Belinda. Jayne has stated James died in 1906 but (I don't think) she gave his surname.

Note that Julia and James were living next door to the Scaifes, namely John Gibson Scaife and his wife Jane (parents of Joseph, born 1870), on the 1901 census.


GRO references:

1875 Q1 Birth - Julia Ann Phillips (mmn: Cottrell); Salford; 08D; 153
1896 Q3 Marriage - James Morris & Julia Ann Phillips; Manchester; 08D; 481
1906 Q1 Death - James Morris; age 32 (born 1874); Manchester; 08D; 143
1952 Q3 Death - Julia Anne Morris; age 77 (born 1875); Manchester; 10E; 17    

1896 Q4 Birth - Thomas Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 310
1898 Q2 Birth - Belinda Grace Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 295
1898 Q2 Birth - Mary Ann Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 295
1899 Q3 Birth - Julia Ann Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 282
1901 Q1 Birth - James Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 263
1903 Q1 Birth - Elizabeth Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 290
1905 Q2 Birth - Edith Morris (mmn: Phillips); Manchester; 08D; 265

1897 Q2 Death- Thomas Morris; age 0 (born c1897); Manchester; 08D; 220
1899 Q2 Death- Belinda Grace Morris; age 1 (born c1898); Manchester; 08D; 214
1900 Q1 Death- Julia Ann Morris; age 0 (born c1900); Manchester; 08D; 258


1881 Census - Hamilton Street, Manchester
Julia Ann Phillips, with parents Robert & Belinda
Ref RG11; Piece 4002; Folio 82; Page 50
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-FWMQ

1891 Census - Hamilton Street, Manchester
Julia Phillips, with parents Robert & Belinda
Ref RG12; Piece 3245; Folio 96; Page 4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q588-YPZ

1901 Census - Pearson Street, Manchester
James & Julia Morris, with children and Julia's siblings
Ref RG13; Piece 3753; Folio 126; Page 25
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X92S-5WR


Looking at Joseph and Julia's children there appears to 7, 3 of whom died young. Looking in certain records, Eileen appears to have a connection to a Julia Morris.

GRO references:

1909 Q4 Birth - Lilian Winifrid Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Ashton-Under-Lyne; 08D; 489
1911 Q2 Birth - Joseph Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 763
1912 Q3 Birth - Harriet Maud Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 1577
1913 Q2 Birth - Gerard Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 1649
1915 Q1 Birth - Eileen Agnes Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 1622
1917 Q4 Birth - Julia Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 1134
1919 Q3 Birth - Lucy Scaife (mmn: Phillips); Chorlton; 08C; 1301

1911 Q3 Death - Joseph Scaife; age 0 (born c1911); Chorlton; 8C; 1144
1913 Q1 Death - Harriet Maud Scaife; age 0 (born c1913); Chorlton; 8C; 1137
1920 Q1 Death - Julia Scaife; age 2 (born c1918); Chorlton; 8C; 976

1929 Q1 Marriage - Ernest M Williams & Lillian W Scaife; Manchester South; 8d; 309
1982 Q3 Death - Lillian Winifred Williams; born 22 Aug 1909; Manchester; 38; 0955

1937 Q2 Marriage - Gerard Scaife & Margaret R McCullagh; Manchester South; 8d; 593
1974 Q1 Death - Gerard Scaife; born 05 May 1913; Manchester; 10e; 426

1939 Q4 Marriage - Stephen Bradley & Eileen A Scaife; Manchester; 8d; 1430
1976 Q1 Death - Eileen Bradley; born 29 Dec 1916; Manchester; 38; 1313

1937 Q4 Marriage - Norman Prestwood & Lucy Scaife; Manchester South   8d; 541
1987 Q4 Death - Norman Prestwood; born 23 Apr 1916; Manchester; 38; 997
2014 Q4 Death - Lucy Prestwood; 95 (born c1919); Tameside (014-1a); Entry 511320452


There are some FindAGrave records for some of these people and with various relationship links (although I'm not convinced by the link to Joseph Scaife (1879-1922)).

Find A Grave
Julie Ann Phillips Morris (1875-1952)

Inscription info:
James Morris - died 25 Feb 1906, aged 32
Julia Ann Morris - died 09 Jul 1952, aged 77

Record linked to:
- Joseph Scaife, spouse (see below)
- Mary Ann Cottrell (nee Morris), child
- Elizabeth Stiles (nee Morris), child
- Lillian Winifred Williams (nee Scaife), child

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/115165899/julie-ann-morris

Find A Grave
Joseph Scaife (1879-1922)

Inscription info:
Joseph Scaife - died 11 Mar 1922, aged 42?
Eliza Scaife - died 11 Jan 1927, aged 72?
Edith Doyle - died 20 Nov 1957, aged 74, wife of John Doyle

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/115166252/joseph-scaife

[cuffie81]

Personally, if I was researching this family, in particular Joseph, there's a few records I'd be getting:

1) Marriages certificates of Lillian and her siblings (may be not all of them but at least a couple) to check the details of the father and whether he was recorded as deceased or not.

2) Death certificate of Johanna Scaife (1930) to confirm she was the wife or widow of Joseph. Her martial status would give some indication as to whether Joseph was still alive or not.

3) Marriage certificate of Joseph Scaife and Elizabeth Lang (1931) to determine if he was a widower and the son of John Gibson Scaife (the blacksmith).