Place name in Cardiganshire.

[Girl Guide]

I did find the census record myself.

I agree that the most likely birth record is this one:-

THOMAS, JOHN  OWEN     ROBERTS 
GRO Reference: 1857  D Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH  Volume 11B  Page 63

I'll have a look at other census records and see what I can find.

[mothball]

Just checked the Second child's birth certificate and it puts the mother Mary Thomas formally Davies as deceased, and the father John Owen Thomas. 1894 Pontypridd.

[Girl Guide]

What was dad's occupation and who were the witnesses on the marriage cert?

Sometimes the name John can be Evan in Wales.

[mothball]

The father's name was just John Owen (deceased), occupation 'carrier'.  The two witnesses are an aunt and uncle of Mary Davies.

[Girl Guide]

Do you have the marriage certificate from John's first marriage?  When was it and to whom?

I assume that on his second marriage to Mary he was stated to be a widower?

[mothball]

Sorry for late reply, yes he was down as widow but I didn't want to bring that up as it might complicate things because the age.

If he was born in Dec 1857 and married Mary in 1889 that doesn't give much room for another marriage but I found one in Glamorgan in 1874 and he would've been 17 but again because of the abundance of the name Thomas and there were two options for a first wife one was a Jane Davies and the other was a Margaret Williams, so looking for a death between 1874 and 1889 is asking too much from the register.  Sorry this particular tree is full of very common Welsh names.

[Girl Guide]

There are only three marriages between 1874 and 1889 for a John Owen Thomas in Wales.  One is for the 1889 marriage which you have.

The other two are:-

Marriages Sep 1874   
Davies    Jane        Merthyr T.    11a   605    
LEWIS    Daniel        Merthyr T.    11a   605    
Thomas    John Owen        Merthyr T.    11a   605
Williams    Margract        Merthyr T    11a   605    
Williams    Margraet        Merthyr T.    11a   605

Marriages Jun 1887   
Jones    Jane        Llanrwst    11b   566   
Jones    William        Llanrwst    11b   566    
Price    Jane        Llanrwst    11b   566    
Thomas    John Owen        Llanrwst    11b   566

You will have to decide whether to obtain the certificates or see if they can be found any other way.

[mothball]

Oh thanks so much you are going through so much trouble to help. Yes I thought it was the Merthyr Tydfil one as that is in south Wales whereas the other one is at the top of North Wales, and therefore thought it very unlikely that he would move up there first. But you never know.

It's a difficult one this one as without establishing where he was born we can't order a birth certificate. And would it be worth just guessing that the Merthyr Tydfil marriage was the correct one. I appreciate all that you have been looking but I do think I should concentrate on where he was born. There seems to be a community of people from Cardiganshire who moved to South Wales for the coal mines. My Jones family came from Cardiganshire and settled in South Wales

[Sam Swift]

I think the place of birth for John Owen Thomas is Pentalar. There is a Pentalar near Blaenporth Cardiganshire. He is also on the 1911 Census in East Rd Tylorstown with both daughters and another wife married 8 years (she was widowed and has a son John Samuel Jones b.1887 Tylorstown. John Owen Thomas died 1914 - THOMAS, JOHN  OWEN aged 53 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 626

He's buried in Ferndale cemetery along with his wife Mary.