Martha Jane Hall birth

[Ealasaid McLelland]

I am trying to find a birth certificate for my great grandmother Martha Jane Hall she was born in Kernan, Armagh Ireland about 1846. Her father was John Hall a farmer from Kernan. I believe she had siblings and would like to confirm that. Her mother was Margaret McCormick according to her death certificate - she died in Partick, Scotland. Martha Jane married James McClelland in Seagoe Parish in 1866 before they moved to Scotland. Any help with finding Seagoe Parish church records for her birth and the marriage of John Hall and Margaret McCormick would be appreciated

[Elwyn Soutter]

Birth certificates only started in Ireland in 1864 so you won’t get one for Martha. You might find her baptism. RC records are on-line on the nli site. For other denominations eg Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian etc you will probably have to go to PRONI in Belfast.

She married in Seagoe Church of Ireland which suggests she was that denomination. The PRONI catalogue lists these records for Seagoe:

C.I. Seagoe (Dromore diocese)
Baptisms, 1672-1731, 1735-1821 and 1829-76;
marriages, 1672-1731, 1735-1821 and 1826-45;
burials, 1672-1731, 1735-1821 and 1829-81; vestry
minutes, 1734-1900.
Analysis of register of baptisms, marriages and burials,
1672-1904.
Index to baptisms, marriages and burials, 1672-1919.
Preachers’ books, 1877-; visiting book, 1879.

3 Hall households in Kernan in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Kernan/Kernan/

Probate abstract for a possible relative:

The Will of James Hall late of Kernan County Armagh Farmer who died 12 March 1893 was proved at Armagh by Andrew Hall of Lisniskey in said County Farmer the surviving Executor.

The will itself is on-line and names his wife as Ellen.

There is a John Hall in the Valuation revision books for Kernan (on the PRONI site). He had plot 20, a farm just under 12 acres. He is deleted in 1870 (suggesting he died around then). He is replaced by Thomas Hall & James Hall jointly on 20a and Malcolmson Hall on 20b.

There is a death for a John Hall registered in Luragn 30.3.1869 aged 75. That could be him. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

Thomas looks to have been the son of Moses Hall. His bride, Mary Jane, was another Hall also from Kernan, her father was Isaac. Thomas & Mary Jane married in 1869:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11408/8189446.pdf

Here’s Thomas son of John, from Kernan marrying in 1854. He was a pensioner indicating he had probably been in the army.  The John Hall is a weaver not a farmer, so keep an open mind in case it’s a different John.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1854/09474/5433518.pdf

[Ealasaid McLelland]

Thank you so much for this information. I will check into your recommendations. Very helpful - Thanks

[Ealasaid McLelland]

Thank you - I did find the connection of James Hall connection.

I do not believe Martha Jane was RC. I am located in the United States and cannot visit the library. Is there any other way I can request records for Seagoe Parish?

[Ealasaid McLelland]

Elwyn,

Thank you - I already have found the death of John Hall. He died in 1866 at 73. Thomas Hall is on the death certificate. His wife Margaret died 1878 certificate signed by Malcolmson.

James Hall's will indicates he is leaving 3 looms to Thomas McClelland his nephew (my grandfathers brother).  Could their occupations be both a farmer and a weaver? I often wondered if some farms may have been both.
I found a death for Thomas Hall in 1889 single, and he was a weaver - certificate had James Hall.

[Elwyn Soutter]

According to the 1901 census, the Hall families in Kernan were a mix of Church of Ireland & Methodist. The history of Methodism in Ireland is complex. It didn’t exist as a separate denomination till about 1816, and the families would all have been Church of Ireland prior to that.  In contrast to other places such as England and the US, Methodists in Ireland were very reluctant to separate from the Episcopalian church (the Church of Ireland) and many continued to use it for baptisms and particularly marriages right up until about 1882. So in the years 1818 – 1882 you might find your Methodist Halls in the Methodist records or they might be in the Church of Ireland’s. You may need to search them both. According to the PRONI guide, there are 2 Methodist Meeting Houses in Seagoe and they have baptism & marriage records as follows:

Ballinacor [Wesleyan Methodists]
Baptisms, 1845-1950;

Bluestone [Wesleyan Methodists]
Baptisms, c.1839-1950; marriages, 1842-4, 1855 and 1864-1918;

You will see from the Ballinacor records that there were no marriages. So they were obviously marrying in the Church of Ireland, though they baptised their own from 1845 onwards.  Bluestone has marriages from 1842, with some gaps. However the records for 1845 onwards should be duplicated into the statutory records on the irishgenealogy site and so the gaps shouldn’t matter.

According to my guide to Church of Ireland records, the rootsireland site (subscription) has some years records for Seagoe Church of Ireland, so you could try them. Otherwise you can write to the parish and ask them to look the records up. The Minister doesn’t have to do that, but if he/she agrees then you normally have to pay. I think the fee is £19 (sterling) an hour.  (Some Ministers are more accommodating than others. If all you want is a copy of a single baptism on a known date, they’ll often assist, but if what you want is a trawl through 50 years records looking for all BDM events, then generally they won’t. It’s too much work, and they have other things to do). Or you could hire a researcher to look the records up for you in PRONI. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

The Methodist records are also in PRONI.

You ask whether a farmer could also be a weaver. Yes that did happen if it was a small farm. The weaving providing top up income, particularly in the winter months when there wasn’t a lot of work on the farm. Home weaving gradually died out as the 19th century progressed. New water powered mills in towns like Lurgan, Lisburn & Belfast made it much more economically, and sometimes to a higher standard.

I found a couple more probate abstracts for you for Halls from Kernan, on the PRONI wills site.

Administration of the Estate of Jane Hall late of Kernan County Armagh Widow who died 20 January 1908 granted at Armagh to Samuel Hall Railway Clerk.

Hall Malcolmson of Kernan county Armagh farmer died 18 April 1927 Probate Belfast 27 June to William Hall and Ephraim Collins farmers. Effects £214 3s.

In Jane’s case she died intestate so there’s no will. There should however be a summary of her estate in her file in PRONI. With Malcolmson there should be a will. If you hire a researcher that person can get copies of the probate files as well as look up the church records.