Author Topic: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel  (Read 101 times)

Offline fisherj

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John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« on: Wednesday 30 December 20 18:41 GMT (UK) »
John Tucker m Jane Varcoe in St Stephen in Brannel on 26 November 1820.
He was buried in Withiel, 26 Feb 1841 aged 54 (abode Tregoan).

I thought I had worked out his parents and grandparents but I have recently heard from someone else who has a different view.

So - I am trying to work out which of the following John Tuckers is more likely to be correct in our family tree.  

(1) John Tucker, bapt 10 September 1786 St Stephen in Brannel
Parents:  John Tucker and Susanna Butson (born Trudgian - she married twice - to Nicholas Butson before John Tucker)

(2) John Tucker, bapt 15 April 1787 St Stephen in BrannelParents: Joseph Tucker and Jane Truscott.

I had thought it was John (1) because...

As long as he was born up to 7 months before baptism and his year of birth was known(!!) then the age on the burial record would be correct....and.....

The name "Susanna" was passed on to her granddaughter Sousen, and to later generations as "Susie".  I cannot find any Susan/Susies in any other parts of the family as the origin of this name.

Susanna Trudgian/Butson/Tucker had a brother called "Joseph" so there is no clue in terms of descendants with that name,

But am I being too rash (and vain) to rule out John (2) as a contender?   Should I leave it all as a big question mark?

Any ideas on how to tackle this would be appreciated since I've spent an embarrassingly long time on it already - with no luck!

Many thanks
Woodmancote:† Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:† Fisher
Eastcombe:† Winstone
Chalford:† Lambert
Newent:† Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:† Fowler; Selman
Olveston:† Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:† Davies

Offline trish1120

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 31 December 20 12:20 GMT (UK) »
I am a bit confused as 1820 Marriage has "with consent of parents" which I thought meant they were underage?

I see the John 1786 but John/Susanna Bapt a Son JOHN TRUDGIAN Tucker 27 Mar 1794?

JOHN/JANE Bapt St Stephen;
JOHN 20 Jan 1822
JANE 19 Apr 1824
FANNY TUCKER 09 Aug 1826
Then Withiel;
SUSAN 20 May 1829
WILLIAM 01 Jan 1832

1861 Jane is with Daug Fanny Grew
1851 with son John
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 31 December 20 12:27 GMT (UK) »
Cant find the Family in 1841 but have a Marriage for Susan born 1829.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline ColC

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 31 December 20 12:52 GMT (UK) »
Some of this already posted, apologies.

John TUCKER   Jane VERCOE   Marriage 25 Nov 1820   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen :

Groom parish   Otp
Bride parish   Otp
Witness1   William ELLERY
Witness2   John JOHNS
Notes   Married with consent of parents Bride and groom both marked register

Quite a selection to choose from.

Freereg note the following for John & Susanna.
John Trudgian TUCKER   Baptism   27 Mar 1794   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen

John TUCKER   Baptism   10 Aug 1786   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen

John TUCKER   Baptism   10 Sep 1786   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen

If he was born in St Stephen it looks like a choice of two, do Johnís childrenís names help?

Joseph & Jane
John TUCKER   Baptism   15 Apr 1787   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen :

William & Ann
John TUCKER   Baptism   26 Dec 1788   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen

I guess this is Jane, parents Thomas & Jane
Jane VARCOE   Baptism   21 Aug 1791   Cornwall   St Stephen (Brannel) : St Stephen

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline fisherj

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 31 December 20 15:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your replies...

1.  The "Consent of parents" - I did previously query that on Rootschat and it was pointed out to me that other entries on the same page of the marriage register included that phrase.  And that the pre-printed wording on the Register was: "were married in this Church by (Licence-Banns) with consent of------".  So not to read too much into that.

2.  Working backwards in time...Susan/Sousan Tucker bapt 1829 married Martin Brenton (various surname spellings through the generations) on 2 Jan 1848.

3.  Susan Tucker is one of the children of John Tucker and Jane Varcoe/Vercoe.

4.  The correct John Tucker died in Feb 1841 Withiel abode Tregoan/Tregone /Tregawn which is where his widow Jane Tucker (Varcoe) was in 1841, 1851.  She was with her daughter Fanny in 1861 and was buried on 14 Sept 1868 aged 87 in Withiel which fits perfectly with her bapt on 21 Aug 1791, in St Stephen in Brannel.

5.  Now for the dilemma pointed out by Trish (which I already noted but it did not register with me) - John Tucker and Susanna Butson named and bapt one child John Tucker on 10 Sept 1786 and another child John Trudgian Tucker (Trudgian being her original surname) on 27 March 1794.  What is the likelihood of that?  I need to find a death for John Tucker 1786 before his brother 1794 was born!

6.  So which John Tucker is most likely to be the one aged 54 when he died in Withiel in Feb 1841?  Which bapt?

7.  The John Trudgian Tucker bapt in 1794 would have been further off the mark than the John Tucker bapt in 1787.

8.  I am just stuck on the name Susan/Susie which being handed down from Susannah Tucker/Butson/Trudgian.  If not from her then who from?

Thanks again for your interest and help.






Woodmancote:† Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:† Fisher
Eastcombe:† Winstone
Chalford:† Lambert
Newent:† Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:† Fowler; Selman
Olveston:† Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:† Davies

Offline fisherj

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 31 December 20 18:45 GMT (UK) »
I have been unable to find ....

any burial for John Tucker (bapt 1786 St Stephen in Brannel) between 1786 and 1794 when his brother John Trudgian Tucker was baptised...nor

any burial for John Trudgian Tucker (in the St Stephen in Brannel register on line through Family Search)...nor 

any marriage record; census record; nor anything else on the Cornwall parish clerk website, free bmd nor freereg for John Trudgian Tucker.

Of course there are lots of entries for "John Tucker" but nothing to identify him as the John Trudgian Tucker born to John and Susanna Tucker.  And I've tried different spellings of Trudgian too!

Any thoughts?  It does seem odd to call a second child John, just 8 years apart (in baptism if not actual age) unless the first died.
Woodmancote:† Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:† Fisher
Eastcombe:† Winstone
Chalford:† Lambert
Newent:† Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:† Fowler; Selman
Olveston:† Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:† Davies

Offline trish1120

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #6 on: Friday 01 January 21 13:24 GMT (UK) »
I agree that the problem and sorry I cant see anything that helps solve it at this stage.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline fisherj

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Re: John Tucker 1786 or 1787 St Stephen in Brannel
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 January 21 13:39 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for looking at this anyway.
Much appreciated.
Woodmancote:† Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:† Fisher
Eastcombe:† Winstone
Chalford:† Lambert
Newent:† Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:† Fowler; Selman
Olveston:† Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:† Davies