Author Topic: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers  (Read 513 times)

Offline a chesters

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,157
    • View Profile
Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« on: Thursday 31 December 20 05:45 GMT (UK) »
I have an ancestor of OH who became a Presbyterian ministers sometime between 1861 and 1869.
In 1861, he was a Writers clerk, as per the 1861 census. He was aged 18 at the time, living at home, at 224 Garscube Rd Glasgow.

The next reference I have been able to find is from the Glasgow Herald of 20 May 1869, where he is referred to as a probationer, to be called to go to Blackburn, Lancashire.

I have his basic life from there, but am wondering if anyone can point me in the direction  of where to look for the time and place he would have been in training to become a United Presbyterian minister.

His name was Arthur Macarthur, born 1843 in Glasgow, and died in 1920 in Newcastle on Tyne.

A Chesters

Offline Skoosh

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,736
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 31 December 20 08:25 GMT (UK) »
AC, a complicated business, Google, United Free Church of Scotland.
 Following the Disruption of the 1840's the Free Church split and part merged with the United Church of Scotland, forming the United Free Church.
 The Free Church College in Glasgow trained its own ministers, see Trinity College, post the Disruption which opened in 1856.  Now converted into flats the triple towers on the Woodlands Hill are a feature of Glasgow's West end.  The college records are at Glasgow University's Archive dept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glasgow,_Trinity_College_frontage_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1539328.jpg

Bests,
Skoosh.

Offline a chesters

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,157
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #2 on: Friday 01 January 21 00:13 GMT (UK) »
Skoosh, thanks for that. It looks, having had a brief look, that it will be an interesting journey trying to sort things out.

Again, many thanks.

AC

Offline carolineasb

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #3 on: Friday 01 January 21 16:23 GMT (UK) »
I'm confused :( I thought he was a United Presbyterian Minister rather than a United Free Minister?
Tannahill:  Ayrshire, Renfrewshire
Mulgrew/Milgrew:  Glasgow
Canning: Renfrewshire


Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,083
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #4 on: Friday 01 January 21 17:00 GMT (UK) »
The United Presbyterian Church united with part of the Free Church of Scotland to form the United Free Church of Scotland.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scotland#/media/File:Reformed_Scots_Church_Denominations.svg
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline a chesters

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,157
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 02 January 21 04:32 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian, thank you for that link.
It looks almost as interesting as some wiring diagrams I had to deal with.

carolineasb, it is very confusing.
In the 1871 census, he lists as a Clergyman in the United Presbyterian Church.
In the other census's he lists simply as a Presbyterian minister, no distinction. Even the probate has him as a Presbyterian minister.

It could be that at the time there were no other Presbyterian churches in Blackburn, Lancashire, but I have my doubts about that.

I will have to try to check if there were other Presbyterians there.

More work :'(

AC


Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,083
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 02 January 21 11:13 GMT (UK) »
The Presbyterian Church of England was formed in 1876 by a merger between the United Presbyterian Church and other Presbyterian congregations in England. So there is no inconsistency between Arthur Macarthur being described as United Presbyterian in 1871 and simply Presbyterian in 1881, and no need to speculate about how many Presbyterian churches there were in Blackburn.

I have in my tree the Reverend John Black, born in Newcastle-upon-Tyne in 1831/1832 to parents from Lanarkshire, who attended, but did not graduate from, the University of Glasgow, and then took a theological course at the London Presbyterian College. He was minister of North Bridge Street Presbyterian Church, Monkwearmouth, Sunderland from 1859 until 1878. Following the merger of the United Presbyterian and other churches to form the Presbyterian Church of England, he was appointed the first General Secretary of the Presbyterian Church of England in 1878, and he served in this capacity until his death in 1888.

So it is at least a possibility that your Arthur Macarthur followed a similar path, for example attending the University of Glasgow but not graduating. It would be worth asking the University of Glasgow Archives if they have any record of him. https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/archivespecialcollections/

I see from a newspaper report of the laying of the foundation stone of a school in Blackburn that the Rev Arthur MacArthur is the only participating minister without letters after his name, which does indeed imply that he had never graduated from a university.

His death was reported by the Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer on 14 July 1920: The Rev. Arthur Macarthur, who for many years was minister at the Presbyterian church of Etal, Northumberland, has died in Newcastle the age of 77.

The Alnwick Mercury reported on 19 October 1912 that: On Sunday, the Rev Arthur Macarthur preached farewell after having prosecuted his labours for over twelve years. Advancing years had had something to do with it.

Interesting to see that another Rev Arthur Macarthur was the was the last Moderator of the English Presbyterian Church before its union with the Congregational Church in 1971.

Digression re the London Presbyterian College - see https://dissacad.english.qmul.ac.uk/sample1.php?detail=achist&histid=66&acadid=180. I don't think it is likely that Arthur MacArthur attended this college, first because it was partly established to provide English candidates for the Presbyterian church in England, and second, why would he have gone all the way, and incurred the expense, for theological training in London when there were theological colleges in Scotland?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline a chesters

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,157
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking help re training of Scottish Presbyterian ministers
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 03 January 21 04:34 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian, many thanks for that information.

I will have to "invest" in a months worth of the newspaper archives to find out more about Arthur, and some others.

Quote: Interesting to see that another Rev Arthur Macarthur was the was the last Moderator of the English Presbyterian Church before its union with the Congregational Church in 1971.

This Arthur Macarthur was the grandson of the Arthur Macarthur I am following. The generation in between was Edwin Macarthur, not in our direct line.

Arthur was a popular name for the Macarthurs, making it "interesting" to follow them :-X

Again, many thanks for your help.

AC