What happened to William?

[Davedrave]

I have found records of William Sayers, born in Chelmsford in 1845, but I don’t know whether he was still alive in 1911 since I can’t find a census entry. However, I’m using FindMyPast and I certainly know that one census record for him on there was “hiding” behind a mis-transcription. One of the problems with William was that he was rather mobile.

So far I have:

Born 1845 Chelmsford, to a father in the leather/skinning trade.

1851 Chelmsford
1861 Chelmsford: father has died, mother has re-married, William is William Burgess (this known thanks to help on Rootschat)
1871 Godalming: in skinning trade. Back to surname Sayers. Is married to Frances.
1881 Lincoln: in skinning trade
1891 Colne, Lancs: in skinning trade. Wife Frances and son William (born Godalming) in same house, married son Walter (born Chelmsford) next door. All men employed in skinning.
1901 Grantham: William snr is a lodger, working in skinning trade. Wife Frances and son William still in Colne. Son Walter has moved to Leeds (in skinning).

I can find no record for Frances or William in 1911. In the 1911 Census son William is in the same house in Colne as in 1901. Walter is still in Leeds (now a confectioner!). I think that Frances died in 1907 (a death recorded in Burnley, the reg district for Colne); the age at death is right.
There is a death of William Sayers recorded in Leeds in 1906. The age is almost right. I think this could well be William senior.

I did think I’d found William in 1911, in Epsom/Mitcham, a “Mr” Sayers, born in Chelmsford, and in the skinning trade. Turns out to be his brother
I’d like if possible to definitely rule out a 1911 Census record before taking a chance on ordering the death reg from GRO.

[softly softly]

Whilst not shown on freebmd this death from gro index fits for William

SAYERS, WILLIAM       77 
GRO Reference: 1923  D Quarter in SALFORD  Volume 08D  Page 70

John
 

[softly softly]

sorry,it does show on freebmd

[softly softly]

That death in 1923 is not your William. In 1921 electoral reg he is with his wife Lydia and they appear together in 1911 census. Back to the drawing board.

John

[softly softly]

That death in 1923 is not your William. In 1921 electoral reg he is with his wife Lydia and they appear together in 1911 census. Back to the drawing board.

John

[Davedrave]

That death in 1923 is not your William. In 1921 electoral reg he is with his wife Lydia and they appear together in 1911 census. Back to the drawing board.

John

Thanks John for confirming this for me. I had wondered about this record, since the age at death looked good and the Lancashire geography suggestive, though it did mean too that there would have needed to be an explanation for William’s absence from the 1911 census. So it is very useful to be able to definitely rule this record out. The Leeds record and geographical connection with his son looks even more suggestive now.

Dave

[jonw65]

Walter Sayers was buried at Leeds General Cemetery in 1930
https://explore.library.leeds.ac.uk/special-collections-explore/592302

But sadly William Sayers who died in 1906 was not!
Amazing amount of detail in those registers. Include place of birth, names of parents!

[Davedrave]

Walter Sayers was buried at Leeds General Cemetery in 1930
https://explore.library.leeds.ac.uk/special-collections-explore/592302

But sadly William Sayers who died in 1906 was not!
Amazing amount of detail in those registers. Include place of birth, names of parents!

Many thanks for this, it is really interesting. I must say that I hadn’t realised ‘til now that Fanny=Frances. Interesting too that Walter’s wife believed that he was born in Lincoln, whereas Walter knew he’d been born in Chelmsford (1911 Census). Maybe she remembered him talking about his childhood in Lincoln. It would be great if all records were as detailed as these from Leeds.

For William I think I maybe need to investigate burials in Colne. If William did in fact die in Leeds, maybe while on a visit to Walter, his body could well have been returned to Colne where Frances and son William were still living.

Dave

[Davedrave]

Just for the sake of completeness, in case anyone else possibly researching these individuals should come across this in future: I found that William Sayers did indeed die in Leeds in 1906. It seems that he moved there some time after the 1901 Census and lived in a street just a few yards from a massive tannery, possibly where his son Walter worked too. It seems that Leeds was the most important centre outside Bermondsey for leather production at this period.

Frances his wife seems to have moved back to Colne after he died, to live with single son William, and she died in there 1907, in the Burnley Union registration district.