Where is Isabella

[janeygee]

  HI;

I wonder if anyone can help find  a birth possible illigitimate and could involve my Grt Grandfather.
Child is  Isabella baptised 16 Nov 1857  Ballynahinch Catholic Church.  Father Samuel Hedefin
Mother Rose Gilmer.

I have found records of various surname spelling  of Hedefin . Hedovan .Hedoran.etc. I also found a record of a Rose Gilmer married James Savage.later 1860's. My Grt G. Samuel Hidifont married
Mary Ann McBride 1863 Newtownards Pres Ch. and moved to Glas.Scot.he had a daughter named Isabella born Glas in 1882. but I'm trying to find this Isabella from 1857 Ireland.

Possible name change to Savage no trace of her  would appreciate any idea ,help where to look for her  than you very much.

Kind regards;

Jane

[oldohiohome]

It's hard to tell online how much someone already knows, so if this is off the mark, I apologize.

Catholic parish records list the mother by her maiden name, so the Isabella's birth on 16 Nov 1857 in Ballynahinch isn't illegitimate. If it were, there would be a note in the register, I am pretty sure.

So you would be looking for an Isabella Hedifin's marriage or death to see what happened to her.

Can you put your Samuel Hedifin in the Ballynahinch area in 1857?* If so, it might be an earlier marriage for him. Again if so, can you find a burial record of Rose Hedifin between 1857 and 1863?  (Civil Reg.of deaths started in c. 1864, so you would have to hope for a burial record).

*edit: What was his occupation when he married in Newtonards in 1863? If farmer, he  probably didn't move around a lot. If constable, teacher, etc., then he'd be more likely to be the same person who married Rose Gilmer. What was his father's name? Where was his father? Griffiths was about that year, were either James or his father in Newtonards or Ballynahinch - but again beware of 2 people with the same name.

If you can't put him in that area in that year, then there could have been two different Samuel Hedifins.

And you would need to investigate the Rose Gilmer who married James Savage in the 1860's. (I couldn't find the record in a quick look). Was it also in Ballynahinch? Were there two Rose Gilmers? Can you find Rose (Gilmer) and James Savage on later records, e.g., births of children, 1901 Census?

[sam.b]

Is this any help?
Record Type
Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 22 Jan 1872
Groom Name James SAVAGE
Bride Name Rose GILMORE
Church Portaferry Roman Catholic Church
Parish Ballyphilip
Civil District Downpatrick
County Down

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11294/8143206.pdf

[oldohiohome]

That looks like the marriage Jane was referring to. And I wouldn't think it was the same Rose Gilmer that had a child Isabella baptized in Ballynahinch.

-----------
Irrelevant, but: Hedefin is a nice name, but it looks like a nightmare to search for. I typed in just "Hedefin" in "Ballynahinch" in 1901 at ancestry.com and I don't think even two of the results were spelled the same. 

[janeygee]

HI;

Reply to Sam Barry and oldohiohome thank you very much for your help in my quest to find Isabella Hedefin born 1857  I have been off air due to computer issues just getting back on but not fully in the scope

I am trying to find my files with more info on this birth and the parents involved  you are correct searching for a name like Hedefin is a nightmare I have dozens of spelling forms I do have a death cert for a Henry Hedovan 1905 Belfast  with his daughter Jane who also died abt 1892 Belfast  yet can't find any sign of them either even have the street address.

This family in Cty Down was quite large  farmers,weavers, general labourers etc. Samuel & Mary Ann  settled in Glasgow Scot abt 1865 and my mother is from this union but nobody talked about family roots in those days so I'm at a loss and the Irish records are another nightmare.

I have Samuel & Mary Ann marriage cert and father 's  are James Hedifont Farmer.Ballymena
Archibald McBride Farmer Killearn I was told Samuel born Dromore Cty Down 1827 his father James died abt 1848.
I did find a Rose Gilmore and James Savage here again is the surname spelling differs from Gilmer to Gilmore 

That's all I have at the moment and will very much appreciate any help or hints from fellow members.

Kind regards from freezing cold snowy Canada
Jane

[janeygee]

It's hard to tell online how much someone already knows, so if this is off the mark, I apologize.

Catholic parish records list the mother by her maiden name, so the Isabella's birth on 16 Nov 1857 in Ballynahinch isn't illegitimate. If it were, there would be a note in the register, I am pretty sure.

So you would be looking for an Isabella Hedifin's marriage or death to see what happened to her.

Can you put your Samuel Hedifin in the Ballynahinch area in 1857?* If so, it might be an earlier marriage for him. Again if so, can you find a burial record of Rose Hedifin between 1857 and 1863?  (Civil Reg.of deaths started in c. 1864, so you would have to hope for a burial record).

*edit: What was his occupation when he married in Newtonards in 1863? If farmer, he  probably didn't move around a lot. If constable, teacher, etc., then he'd be more likely to be the same person who married Rose Gilmer. What was his father's name? Where was his father? Griffiths was about that year, were either James or his father in Newtonards or Ballynahinch - but again beware of 2 people with the same name.

If you can't put him in that area in that year, then there could have been two different Samuel Hedifins.

And you would need to investigate the Rose Gilmer who married James Savage in the 1860's. (I couldn't find the record in a quick look). Was it also in Ballynahinch? Were there two Rose Gilmers? Can you find Rose (Gilmer) and James Savage on later records, e.g., births of children, 1901 Census?

HI;  just a note to say I do not have Samuel in Ballynahinch other than the birth of Isabella also tried to find her as Isabella Savage , no luck there . I would love to find what happened to her   I just wonder why Samuel called his daughter in Glasgow Isabella   born 1882.
My mother was named Isabella and the name carried down through two more generations before
disappearing.

Samuel was a farm laborer in Newtownards and when living in Glas.Scot. a shipyard laborer.he
died in the Poor Man's hospital 1901 I'm trying to find his burial .

Thanks again appreciate your help.

Jane 

[Rosinish]

"My Grt G. Samuel Hidifont married Mary Ann McBride 1863 Newtownards Pres Ch. and moved to Glas.Scot.he had a daughter named Isabella born Glas in 1882. but I'm trying to find this Isabella from 1857 Ireland."

Was Samuel a widower when he married Mary Ann?

Does his DC state he was "married to, 1st & 2nd" with both wives named?

Annie

[janeygee]

    HI Annie;

My Grt Granfather Samuel listed as bachelor  on marriage to Mary Ann McBride  Mar 18/1863
a male child born Mar/1864 but story is he died at birth  though I did find a child Robert Reid Hedifen born same date  died age 20yrs in Belfast  1884 don't know if this is related 

Samuel & Mary Ann moved to Glas.Sct and had 4 girls one son James McBride Hedifont 1869 I found him and his family of abt 10 kids. Mary Ann died and story is she was buried back in Ire. Samuel remarried a widow had two daughters one of whom is my granmother.Samuel died 1901 Glas. Have nobody around to ask for family history and Irish records are  difficult to find.The
surname has about 10 different spellings. Elwyn has been a great help giving me leads so appreciate all the help from members.

Kind regards;
Jane

[Kiltaglassan]

My Grt Granfather Samuel listed as bachelor  on marriage to Mary Ann McBride  Mar 18/1863

Samuel Hidefont marriage 1863 - the link.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1863/09657/5502205.pdf

Samuel residing in Ballymoney townland.
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-lower/newtownards/ballymoney/


KG