Looking for baptism for Ralph Coe, married on 22 August 1670 to Alice Bradshaw

[AdamsHodgetts]

Hi,

I have my 7th great, grandmother Ann Coe baptised on 2 Apr 1676 at St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England to parents, Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw. Abode: Tonge. File Line No:1534. Source: FreeReg

Ralph Coe married Alice Bradshaw (Born: 10 Feb 1648 and baptised during 1663) on 22 August 1670. I have come across a possible birth:6 March 1655 and baptism:11 March 1655 for Ralph Coe, which would make him age 15. After their marriage, they went on to have:-

Alice baptised: 27 Aug 1671 and Ann baptised: 2 April 1676.

However, I have come across an illegitimate daughter, Jane Bradshaw born on 24 Dec 1666 and baptised on 5 January 1666/67 to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw, which would mean Ralph was about 11 years old and Alice, around 18 years old!!

I thought that wasn't possible so have looked again for Ralph Coe's baptism (on FreeReg, Ancestry, FS and http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html) nearer to Alice's age to no avail... so having read the note on their 22 August 1670 marriage at St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England: -

"Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw of Tonge were formerly published, but John Bradshaw, her father forbade it. Howbeit a little before his death, has left them both to their own liberty and they were married in Bolton church."

And wondered... was Ralph's age the reason why for Alice's father, John Bradshaw objected to their marriage?

[Radcliff]

1644/1645 so he could have been nearer 16


perhaps the Ralph father of Alice's child was Ralph senior

[Radcliff]

I am sure you have researched Ralph in quite some detail, is the Ralph who has children with his wife Isabel and baptised in the same church yours ,

[Radcliff]

Have you accessed the bastardy record
Lancashire archives
QSP/308/37
Tonge --bastardy order of Alice Bradshawe and Ralph Coe circa 1667

[Maiden Stone]

However, I have come across an illegitimate daughter, Jane Bradshaw born on 24 Dec 1666 and baptised on 5 January 1666/67 to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw, which would mean Ralph was about 11 years old and Alice, around 18 years old!!

Have you considered Ralph Coe whose wife Esther died Feb 1663/4 as father of Jane? There seems to have been more than 1 man named Ralph Coe in Bolton.
Jane Bradshaw wasn't the only illegitimate child baptised that week at St. Peter's. 

[Maiden Stone]

Ralph Coe married Alice Bradshaw (Born: 10 Feb 1648 and baptised during 1663) on 22 August 1670.


   .... having read the note on their 22 August 1670 marriage at St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England: -

"Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw of Tonge were formerly published, but John Bradshaw, her father forbade it. Howbeit a little before his death, has left them both to their own liberty and they were married in Bolton church."

And wondered... was Ralph's age the reason why for Alice's father, John Bradshaw objected to their marriage?

Birth 10th Feb. 1648 Alice Bradshaw child of John Bradshaw junior, Esq. & Margaret (included on a list of 12 children born of the marriage).

Is this the baptism of Alice you refer to in 1663?
22nd March 1662/3 Alice Bradshaw child of John & Katherin
Born 20th March 1662/3
So not the same Alice as the one born 1648.

There was also this Alice to consider:
1638 Alice Bradshaw, daughter of John, abode Tong

If the Alice Bradshaw who married Ralph Coe was Alice who was born 1648, her father's initial objection to the marriage may have been that he considered Ralph an unsuitable match for the daughter of a gentleman. What was Ralph's occupation? Other possible objections, bearing in mind the era, may have been religious or political affiliations. Bolton supported Parliament during the Civil War and was besieged by a Royalist army. Non-Conformism was strong.

[AdamsHodgetts]

1644/1645 so he could have been nearer 16

Have you accessed the bastardy record
Lancashire archives
QSP/308/37
Tonge --bastardy order of Alice Bradshawe and Ralph Coe circa 1667

I am sure you have researched Ralph in quite some detail, is the Ralph who has children with his wife Isabel and baptised in the same church yours ,

1644/45 would be the ideal age for Ralph Coe to have been born in. Not having luck in finding him though.

How do I access the bastardy records at Lancaster Archives online? I have come across the baptism of Jane Bradshaw via FreeReg, which was clearly pointed out that she was born illegitimate to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw.

I have come across the marriage between Ralph and Isabell Tominsonne, have yet to find the death for Alice Coe first as she may have died before Ralph married Isabell in 1677.

[Radcliff]

1644/1645 so he could have been nearer 16

Have you accessed the bastardy record
Lancashire archives
QSP/308/37
Tonge --bastardy order of Alice Bradshawe and Ralph Coe circa 1667

I am sure you have researched Ralph in quite some detail, is the Ralph who has children with his wife Isabel and baptised in the same church yours ,

1644/45 would be the ideal age for Ralph Coe to have been born in. Not having luck in finding him though.

How do I access the bastardy records at Lancaster Archives online? I have come across the baptism of Jane Bradshaw via FreeReg, which was clearly pointed out that she was born illegitimate to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw.

I have come across the marriage between Ralph and Isabell Tominsonne, have yet to find the death for Alice Coe first as she may have died before Ralph married Isabell in 1677.

contact the archives in Preston by email,I have given you the reference number, and request a copy, it may take awhile due to lockdown,but there may be a clue in there, as in his occupation etc

[AdamsHodgetts]

However, I have come across an illegitimate daughter, Jane Bradshaw born on 24 Dec 1666 and baptised on 5 January 1666/67 to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw, which would mean Ralph was about 11 years old and Alice, around 18 years old!!

Have you considered Ralph Coe whose wife Esther died Feb 1663/4 as father of Jane? There seems to have been more than 1 man named Ralph Coe in Bolton.
Jane Bradshaw wasn't the only illegitimate child baptised that week at St. Peter's.

Birth 10th Feb. 1648 Alice Bradshaw child of John Bradshaw junior, Esq. & Margaret (included on a list of 12 children born of the marriage).

Is this the baptism of Alice you refer to in 1663?
22nd March 1662/3 Alice Bradshaw child of John & Katherin
Born 20th March 1662/3
So not the same Alice as the one born 1648.

There was also this Alice to consider:
1638 Alice Bradshaw, daughter of John, abode Tong

If the Alice Bradshaw who married Ralph Coe was Alice who was born 1648, her father's initial objection to the marriage may have been that he considered Ralph an unsuitable match for the daughter of a gentleman. What was Ralph's occupation? Other possible objections, bearing in mind the era, may have been religious or political affiliations. Bolton supported Parliament during the Civil War and was besieged by a Royalist army. Non-Conformism was strong.

Jane Bradshaw was born on 24 Dec 1666 and baptised on 05 Jan 1667 as Illegitimate, surnamed Bradshaw. Jane's parents were listed as Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw. Abode: Tongue. From FreeReg. File line no: 493

My 7th great, grandmother Ann Coe was baptised on 2 April 1676 and her elder sister, Alice was baptised on 27 August 1671 to Ralph Coe and Alice Bradshaw. Abode: Tongue. So not possible for her mother to be Alice Bradshaw (born 20th March 1662/3) child of John & Katherin.

Ann's mother Alice Bradshaw was the 3rd born child to John and Margarett Bradshaw, born on 10 February 1648 and baptised at Bradshaw Chapel during 1663, aged 15 years old along with 9 siblings. Her last two siblings Jane and Roger were baptised the same year as they were born.

Name: Alice Bradshaw
Baptism Age: 15
Birth Date: 10 Feb 1648
Baptism Date: 1663
Baptism Place: Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Father: John Bradshaw
Mother: Margarett Bradshaw
Reference Number: L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll: 853

I have not found a marriage for Alice's father John Bradshaw and Margarett yet.


Alice married Ralph Coe on 22 August 1670: -

Name: Alice Bradshaw
Marriage Date: 22 Aug 1670
Marriage Place: Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Spouse: Raphe Coe
Reference Number: L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll: 853

First daughter, Jane Bradshaw was born illegitimate: -

Name: Jane Bradshaw
Birth Date: 24 Dec 1666
Baptism Date: 5 Jan 1667
Baptism Place: Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Father: Raphe
Mother: Alice
Reference Number: L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll:853

Second daughter, Alice: -

Name: Alice Coe
Baptism Date: 27 Aug 1671
Baptism Place: Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Father: Ralph
Mother: Alice
Reference Number: L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll:853

Third daughter (my 7th great, grandmother): -

Name: Ann Coe
Baptism Date: 2 Apr 1676
Baptism Place: Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Father: Ralph
Mother: Alice
Reference Number: L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll: 853

Sometime afterwards, Alice Coe, nee Bradshaw must have died, although at the moment, have not found a burial for her yet.

The only Ralph/Raphe Coe I could find on FreeReg and Ancestry is the Ralph Coe, son of Ralph Coe and Hester, born on 06 Mar 1654/55 and baptised on 11 Mar 1654/55, which would make him age 15 years old when he married the 22 year old Alice Bradshaw on 10 Feb 1648.   

I have found a death for Hester Coe: -

Name:   Esther Coe
Event Type:   Burial
Burial Date:   7 Feb 1663
Burial Place:   Bolton-le-Moors, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears:   Bolton St Peter Parish Church
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:   
View this parish
Spouse:   Raphe Coe
Reference Number:   L243/1/1/2
Archive Roll:   853


If it was Ralph's father, the one who married Hester Smth on 08 Nov 1641, wouldn't he be too old to marry Alice Bradshaw? Although, seeing that he is a widower, that could also be a possibility...?  This may also be the reason why John Bradshaw objected to their wedding?


If that was the case then he would not be the one who married Isabell Tominsonne.... as that would be possibly his son Ralph Coe born 1655 who married her?

I have not yet found the occupation of Ralph Coe.