Thomas Augustine Walters (1854-1905)- brick wall

[FrancisGrn]

Dear all,
I would like to ask for a lookup of a brick wall in my family tree. The brick wall is my 2nd great grandfather, Thomas Augustine Walters (1854-1905). He was born in or near Stafford, to a Catholic family. He married Elizabeth Susannah Jenman in 1878, where he is recorded as living in Clapham. As 'Augustine' seems to only appear in the death register and on his grave stone, I suspect that it is a catholic confirmation name that he rarely used. He appears in the 1891 census with his children, but seems to be a mystery before that. I know a fair bit about his father, but he too seems to be very obscure. His father was William Walters, who is listed on TAW's marriage certificate as 'sergeant major army', so I imagine that the reason why he seems so obscure is that he might have been raised by his mother or some other family, as his father seems to have been stationed in East India as a warrant officer for quite some time. I also know that he had a (twin?) sister, Winefride Mary Walters (1854-1929), who died unmarried. Given that Winefride is quite an unusual name which would probably show up quite easily, and that she died a spinster, I have a feeling that Winefride Mary may have become an RC nun, possibly taking Winefride as a convent name. I am also in possession of William (TAW's father's) 'business card', which reads 'Supt. (superintendent) Wm Walters, Mount Pleasant, Bilston', and is apparently related tp the Staffordshire constabulary, so perhaps a background in the police? Anyway, I would like someone to have a look at GROs, BMDs, and try and find him in the census, and just generally look in to his background. There  is a catholic record in latin of 'Thomas Walters, son of Guilemi (William?) Walters and Sarah Hopkins, but I'd like someone to look into it to find if it matches. A relative says that TAW could be the son of a William Walters and Mary Ann Philips, WW being a son of another WW and Mary Nokes, but this seems like just connecting unsourced ancestry trees, and she herself says that she is very unsure.
Thanks
Francis

[rosie99]

For those trying to help 

Thomas, Elizabeth and family living Clapham 1891  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QZDS-S2M
Original gives Thomas's birth place as Stafford, Staffordshire

1911 Elizabeth is Widowed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5X-DP3

1881 for Thomas & Elizabeth.RG11/447 Folio 49 Page   20
Thomas bn Stafford, his age 26 - Surname listed as Watters
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-N1PZ

[rosie99]

I also know that he had a (twin?) sister, Winefride Mary Walters (1854-1929), who died unmarried. Given that Winefride is quite an unusual name which would probably show up quite easily, and that she died a spinster

Death Mar qtr 1929   
Walters,  Winefride M   
age 75   
Brighton reg district    2b   408

Do you have this death certificate, if so what information does it give

[FrancisGrn]

Oh, hi Rosie99.
I'm the same person as the one asking about the Lowthers from bath!
Sorry for bombarding the forum, I just had two brick walls, so I put both out
Thanks
Francis

[rosie99]

I realised you were the same person.  We like being 'bombarded' with questions, it gets us thinking. 

[Capetown]

Ancestry does have ....

Thomas WALTERS
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 29 June 1854

Baptism place: St Austin's Forebridge (near Stafford) - Stafford, England
This is a Roman Catholic Church.

Father: Gulielmi WALTERS (Latin for William)

Mother: Sarae Hopkins WALTERS

(can't see a twin)


-----

GRO INDEX

WALTERS: Thomas - Mother's Maiden Name: HOPKIN
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in Stafford  Volume: 06B Page 4

There is a

WALTERS: Robert - Mother's Maiden Name: HOPKINS (with an S)
GRO Reference: 1852 D Quarter in Stafford Volume: 06B Page 14

----

Again on Ancestry : same place

Robertus WALTERS, 12 Septenber 1852

Father: Gulielmi WALTERS and Sarae Hopkins Walters.

[Capetown]

In 1851 (in my tree) the Enumerator didn't give Christian name of the occupants - so worth looking for initials, also William could be have an initial G....  Especially Army/Navy and Prison records - very often don't have christian names listed.

??

As the baptisms call William, by the Latin name: Gulielmi and as William was a Sgt in the Royal Artillery




1861, England Census
District Royal Artillery Fort Monckton
Hampshire
Alverstock
All

No. 24 has

G WALTERS -  Hd Family  33  Sergt Rl Artillery Bor: Leighton Buzzard, Beds
S WALTERS - Wife aged 31  bor Co Kerry Ireland

next page

children

G -  10 son  - born Canada, N America
E - daughter - 9 born Canada N.A.
M A - daughter - 7 born Canada N.A.
S - daughter - 2 born Skeernes Kent
C - son -  one month born Sheent? Castle, Kent

[Capetown]

1851 Census, St Mary, Stafford.

18 Sash Street

William WALTERS - Mar - 46 - Chelsea Pensioner. born Staffordshire, Derrington
Sarah - 36 - born Ireland
Mary Ann - 8 - born Yorkshire, Hull
William - 5 - born Staffordshire, Stafford
Elizabeth - 3 - born Staffordshire, Stafford
John Henry - 1 - born ditto


----

? family search - Forebridge -  more children of Gulielim and Sarae

Elizabetha - 30 May 1847
Joannes Henricus - 31 March 1850

[Comberton]

I have taken an interest in the business card you mentioned for Supt. Wm Walters, Mount Pleasant, Bilston. The 1901 census has a William Walters, police superintendent in Mount Pleasant. He is easily followed 1871-1911, first with a wife called Mary and later with Susanna.
The problem is he is consistently born 1846 in Hull and there is a birth record
William Walters
Sept 1845
Sculcoates
mmn Hopkins
Could he be a brother to Thomas instead of his father?
Another coincidence is that I think his second wife Susanna Jenman is daughter of Daniel and Mary nee Lowther and sister to Elizabeth Susannah Jenman who married Thomas.
I may be way off but thought I would post it anyway.