Passenger list for the John McVicar 1857

[mckha489]

I am fairly sure that the Mr & Mrs Downes & family named here

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NENZC18571121.2.5?end_date=31-12-1857&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=Downes+and+family&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1857

for Nelson on the John McVicar/MacVicar are the people I am looking for,  but of course I would like to see the actual manifest.   So far I am not having any luck finding it.

There is the diary of the Turnbulls  here https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22391899.

But an actual passenger list eludes me

Thank you

[TwiggyTree]

This webpage suggests that they were Ada and Walter DOWNES?

https://www.angelfire.com/az/nzgenweb/passJKL.html

[mckha489]

yes, I saw that. but they landed Wellington, where as 'my' lot, are definitely in Picton from 1858.  Hence my thinking that the Downes mentioned as 'for Nelson' in the newspaper might be them.

What I have not done, is checked to see if Walter is connected. (This is research for a friend and I have got a bit side-tracked whilst waiting for some certificates for another branch of his family... as  you do! 

The family I am interested in are Thomas William DOWNES and his wife Sarah Rebecca, with a lot of children. The eldest born 1837, and the youngest 1850.   (This is TWD no 1. he had a son, and a grandson both of the same name, who feature heavily in the Alexander Turnbull, DigitalNZ etc)

This is Thomas's second marriage, he is elderly, (b abt 1786) don't know what he was thinking to risk the voyage) and it is possible Walter is a child of his first marriage, Which I have yet to find, although a tree has a suggestion I have yet to check. (they have Thomas William dying in London in 1856, instead of Picton in 1866 so one of us is wrong).

added - I have just noticed the number 9 in brackets (9) on the next line after the Downes and family. And that is how many there should be 2 parents, 7 children.

added further  The Turnbulls on that vessel were Walter and Adelaide.  Can't help wondering if there is a mixup going on.

[TwiggyTree]

Or if you look at that third party website, might it be that Mr and Mrs Downes are not listed BUT all the children are: Mary, Selina, Emily, Frederick, Alice. Ada & Walter Downes; ?

[mckha489]

Or if you look at that third party website, might it be that Mr and Mrs Downes are not listed BUT all the children are: Mary, Selina, Emily, Frederick, Alice. Ada & Walter Downes; ?

How did I not see that!   5 of the children anyway. 

[TwiggyTree]

Regarding TWD senior's death - your date certainly concurs with Marlborough District Council:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qf4/

and BDMH:
Reg No.      Family Name   Given Name(s)   Date of Birth/  Age at Death   
1938/27906   Downes   Thomas William   70Y   
1909/366           Downes   Thomas William   71Y   
1866/6367   Downes   Thomas William   81Y

[mckha489]

Regarding TWD senior's death - your date certainly concurs with Marlborough District Council:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qf4/

and BDMH:
Reg No.      Family Name   Given Name(s)   Date of Birth/  Age at Death   
1938/27906   Downes   Thomas William   70Y   
1909/366           Downes   Thomas William   71Y   
1866/6367   Downes   Thomas William   81Y

Yes, and newspaper notices as well.
And the will the other tree has linked to the 1856 death is for a carpenter, and this one, when in London, was a Jeweller 

[TwiggyTree]

Were there perhaps 2 older children that were entered in their own right on the shipping manifest, and therefore not 'grouped' with this family?

[mckha489]

Were there perhaps 2 older children that were entered in their own right on the shipping manifest, and therefore not 'grouped' with this family?

That’s what I am thinking is a possibility. But they would have to be from the first wife.

Added, oh you mean the two eldest of this family of seven? That’s possible. The two eldest are the ones missing from that list of 5.

Sarah Harriet b 1837 and Thomas William b 1838