Author Topic: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.  (Read 1811 times)

Offline susanne44

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The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« on: Friday 30 April 21 17:16 BST (UK) »
I am working on my McGregor family tree. I notice variations in the spelling of McGregor. In one family two brothers used different spellings: John McGrigor and Peter McGregor were brothers. John was born around 1784. Was this because of vowel pronunciation in Gaelic or some other reason? These brothers were from the Blair Atholl Estates. The estate archive lists a John McGrigor in the military in 1757. I thouht that the name was banned during this time? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Sue.

Offline GR2

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #1 on: Friday 30 April 21 17:24 BST (UK) »
Spelling was not particularly fixed at this period and many of the records are usually written by clerks and notaries rather than the people themselves. I have seen someone spell their own name four different ways in the same letter. There is no significance in variations of spelling.

Offline Rena

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #2 on: Friday 30 April 21 17:47 BST (UK) »
I agree with GR2.

My Scottish Mackenzie family can be found as Mckenzie; M(a)ckinzie; M(a)ckinsie
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline McGroger

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 01 May 21 09:01 BST (UK) »
Here are a few comments I wrote in a book about my McGregor ancestors:

"Have you noticed a couple of different spellings of ‘McGregor/MacGregor’ already in this story? There is no ‘right’ way to spell that name. I have seen more than twenty different ways in old documents. It largely depended on the whims of the writer, usually the parish priest. For example, in Kenmore parish (‘our’ John’s parish) it was usually spelt ‘McGregor’ for men and ‘NcGregor’ for women except for the period from 1791 til 1830 when it was spelt ‘MacGregor’ for both men and women. After 1830 it reverted to ‘McGregor’ for both. (The forty-year period of the ‘MacGregor’ spelling was when a Reverend Colin MacVean was the minister of Kenmore parish.) In the neighbouring parish of Dull it was generally split between ‘McGregor’ and ‘McGrigor’."

In hundreds of hours spent poring over thousands of baptism records another thing I discovered was that native Gaelic speakers tended to use "Mc" or "M' " whereas scribes educated in England or the Scottish Lowlands tended to use "Mac". [References to 'our' John below are to my great grandfather, John McGregor (1852-1947).] Here's my reasoning:

"In our particular line, our family name was spelt ‘McGregor’ (with one exception, ‘McGrigor’) for over 200 years, dating back to the first parish records. (‘Our’ John’s father, Alexander McGregor, born during Rev. MacVean’s time as parish priest, did not have his baptism recorded, but at his marriage in 1850 it was written as ‘McGregor’.) Finally, spelling reforms at the turn of the 20th century mandated a change to ‘MacGregor’ when children went to school.
"‘Our’ John, a native Gaelic speaker, was reportedly unhappy when the spellings of his children’s names were ‘corrected’ to ‘MacGregor’. Originally ‘mc’ was an abbreviation of ‘mac’, and a son of a man named Gregor would be called ‘mac/mc/m‘Gregor’. A daughter however was ‘ncGregor’ and a grandchild was ‘mhic (or ‘vc’) Gregor’ (see Eoin Cam above). Gradually ‘nc’ and ‘mhic’ and their variants disappeared and ‘mc’ took on the additional meaning of ‘descendant’.
"To rename John’s daughter Mary ‘Mac’Gregor would have seemed wrong: Mary was a daughter of John, not a son of Gregor. But both were descendants of Gregor, so ‘Mc’Gregor or ‘M‘’Gregor’ would have made perfect sense, whereas ‘Mac’ too specifically said ‘son’.
"John signed his own name ‘Mc’ or ‘M‘’ all his life.
"However, despite having said all that, any spelling of our name is really as good as any other and, genealogically-speaking, spelling differences mean nought."

Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.


Offline Skoosh

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 01 May 21 09:04 BST (UK) »
The MacGregor proscription lasted until 1784 prior to which they often used the names of lairds like Campbell, Grant, Murray etc' as the MacGregor name was invalid on a legal document. MacGrigor was probably closer to its pronunciation but there could be no correct way to spell a name which didn't exist.

MacGregor Despite Them ;D

Bests,
Skoosh.

Offline McGroger

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 01 May 21 09:32 BST (UK) »
Regarding the name proscription; somewhat like the spelling, there were inconsistencies, which mainly depended on when and where.

There were periods when the proscriptions were more diligently enforced than others. And there were a lot of differences in the different  parishes.

Combining the two (when and where), you would get some McGregors called “McGregor”, some, e.g., “Graeme alias McGregor”, and some “Graeme”. One really weird one I came across is that in Moneydie parish during the proscription, no one was ever given the first name Grigor, no one was ever given the last name McGrigor, but many people were given the last name Grigor.

Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline GR2

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 01 May 21 10:30 BST (UK) »
Re mac. At the start of a name this is sometimes abbreviated to Mc, but it is just that, an abbreviation, and not a fixed spelling. In later times you also get the abbreviation M'. M' is especially common in 19th century newspapers, perhaps because the typesetters could just use an apostrophe.

Offline hdw

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 01 May 21 12:09 BST (UK) »
Whatever laws may have been enacted to proscribe the surname McGregor they must have been impossible to implement at local level. I had an ancestor called Jean Ballantyne who was born in Glasgow in 1775 to James Ballantyne and Christian McGregor. I haven't found their marriage, but I did find a couple called Donald McGregor and Christian Ballantine who had a daughter called Christian McGregor in 1734 at Dull in Perthshire.

Wondering if my Ballantyne/McGregor couple in Glasgow might possibly hail originally from the Dull/Weem/Aberfeldy area, I did a bit of research and found that McGregor/McGrigor/McGrigare was a common name there in the early 1700s. Parish clerks seem to have had no inhibitions about writing it down. Two baby boys called Donald McGregor were born in Dull in 1707.

Harry

Offline Skoosh

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Re: The name Mcgregor/ McGrigor and its use.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02 May 21 06:42 BST (UK) »
The Proscription was a legal matter and a MacGregor would sell his coos on the bill as a Campbell etc,' as to the pronounciation of the name, unless you're a Gael, mac gets plain mac and MacGregor in Scots gets MacGreigor, any I know/knew get MacGreigor, their wives probably called themselves MacGregor and Tam MacGreigor would give his name to the Polis as Thomas MacGregor, similarly Geordie Broon's wife thought she was a Brown, so was he when talking to somebody in authority, George Brown m'Lord!  ;D

Bests,
Skoosh.