Author Topic: Family Heirlooms  (Read 6151 times)

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 27 May 21 15:59 BST (UK) »
Don’t have them now,my rotten sister will have chucked them out when Dad died and before I got there to rescue them.
Someone or others false teeth,I have said elsewhere what fun we had with them ,and my friends,we were not fussy!
I ought to have taken a leaf out of William Brown’s book and charged them so much a minute to wear them!
Viktoria.

Offline Gillg

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 27 May 21 19:09 BST (UK) »
Oh. Please send the dialect poem, they are charming and so sad that such a rich heritage is fast disappearing.
In my 45 years in Ramsbottom ,and the demise of the older lifelong residents and influx of newcomers plus the influence of TV,the dialect is fast going.
It was the language taken to Manchester when cottage industries were fading away and the huge (Satanic!) mills in towns were the main employers.
How old and what the origins were is a deep study in itself .
I should like to see it,don’t give a modern version and let’s see if it is intelligible to people who may never have encountered a strong Northern accent / dialect.
What lovely souvenirs .
I have a little pot of what was once perfume ,an Arabic one brought back from his service in Mesopotamia in WWl by Mum’s brother.
It was a cream or oily resinous perfume ,not liquid .
She and he used to sing to wounded soldiers convalescing
after the war.
“ I sing you songs of Araby
and takes of old Kashmir! “
“Pale hands I loved beside the Shalimar”.
Oh different times different  sentiments.
Viktoria.

Viktoria
I do remember elderly relatives singing those "Indian Love Lyrics", such as "Pale hands I loved".  We children thought they were a hoot!

I will try to type out Gt-aunt's dialect poem, or at least a part of it (it's quite long).  It will be interesting to see how many people can understand it.  I also have a little book written in Lancs dialect about "T'Owd Chapel", where my gt-grandfather was organist and choirmaster.  Again I have to read it aloud to make sense of it.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

FAIREY/FAIRY/FAREY/FEARY, LAWSON, CHURCH, BENSON, HALSTEAD from Easton, Ellington, Eynesbury, Gt Catworth, Huntingdon, Spaldwick, Hunts;  Burnley, Lancs;  New Zealand, Australia & US.

HURST, BOLTON,  BUTTERWORTH, ADAMSON, WILD, MCIVOR from Milnrow, Newhey, Oldham & Rochdale, Lancs., Scotland.

Offline Gillg

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 27 May 21 19:48 BST (UK) »
Viktoria
It looks to me as though Auntie Beth mixed up her dialect with everyday speech, but here's the poem:

Lines on Sadie’s coming of age, October 13 1923

A little chilh were born one day
They co-ed it Sarah Anne
It little yead were russet brown
Ur mun we co it tan.

It has it teeth cut i good tyme
Un walked o’ be itsel
But what it did ut afther that
Ihd tak to long to tell.

You may be sure it had it tricks
Or it ud noane bin rech
Un what it darnut do ith house
It thried it on ih street.

But near that twenty one me lass
In’t Bible says tha knows
Ut we mun let them things abee
Its childhood’s days were close.

Un work fur womens never dun
So th’owd proverb says shugheaw
Un tyme us habben thee bi th’hond
Un says ut that a woman neaw.

It has your Milly in it grip
Oh, ah, fur five yor that’s bin thrue
But sin her yure us getten bobbed
Hoo’d yessy pass fur twentytwo.

So keep both heart and spirits up
Un mix your wark wi fun
An then you’ll allaws go thro lyfe
Rech syde o’ twenty one.

By the way, you need to know that my mother had magnificent red hair (verse 1), as did her sister Milly, also mentioned in v 6. They both followed fashion and had it bobbed. Rumour has it that they were the first girls in Rochdale to do so. Sadly by the time my mother reached 21 both her parents were dead. 

Well, Viktoria, did the Rochdale dialect make sense to you?
 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

FAIREY/FAIRY/FAREY/FEARY, LAWSON, CHURCH, BENSON, HALSTEAD from Easton, Ellington, Eynesbury, Gt Catworth, Huntingdon, Spaldwick, Hunts;  Burnley, Lancs;  New Zealand, Australia & US.

HURST, BOLTON,  BUTTERWORTH, ADAMSON, WILD, MCIVOR from Milnrow, Newhey, Oldham & Rochdale, Lancs., Scotland.

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 27 May 21 21:27 BST (UK) »
Oh yes,but Shugheauw will be so strange to many :-

And work for women’s never done,
So the old proverb says you know

A little child was born one day
They called it  Sarah Anne
It’s little head was russet brown
But we must call it tan.

It had its teeth cut in good time
And walked all by itself
But what it did after that
I’d take too long to tell.

You may be sure it had its tricks
Or it would not have been right( normal)
And what it daren’t do in the house
It tried it in the street .

But now your’e twenty one my Lass
In the Bible it says you know
That we must leave those things alone,
It’s childhood days are closed.

And work for women is never done
So the old proverb says you know
And time has got you by the hand
And  says you are a woman now.

It has your Milly in its grip .
Oh yes,for five years that’s been true
But since her hair’s been bobbed
She’d pass for twenty two!

So keep both heart and spirits up
And mix your work with fun
And then you’ll always go through life
The right side of twenty one!

Thanks very much ,how charming is that !

The softening of two t’s to th - so better becomes bether, is still heard now and again hereabouts.
The use of gotten in the USA is so like dialect getten for got —- “ my sister has getten a dog.
You see that softening in afther for after .
Cheerio,and thanks again .Viktoria.
PS, the Indian love lyrics are pretty heady stuff!
Written by a woman ,but in Edwardian days women were not supposed to be passionate !
So she used a pseudonym Laurence Hope .The young wife of a middle aged British Arny Officer in India ,she was head over heels in love with him !
They had a child in which she had no real interest .

Pale hands I loved beside the Shalimar.
Where are you now who lies beneath your spell.?
Whom do you send on rapture’s roadway far
Before you agonise them in farewell ?
Pale hand pink tipped like lotus buds that float
On those cool waters where we used to dwell
I would have rather felt them round my throat.
Crushing out life than waving me farewell .

Oooer I shall have to throw a bucket of cold water on myself ?
The song is from the view of a little nautch girl being abandoned by a British soldier .
The Shalimar was a lake on which house boats floated ,water lilies grew in abundance and lotus flowers .
A rendezvous !
I can visualise a huge soprano and weedy tenor singing the passionate words
in someone’s parlour ,
The woman who wrote the passionate words coped for only a year after her husband died from complications following a serious operation.
Forgetting her baby,she walked into a river and drowned herself.
On that cheerful note—
Viktoria.




Online Erato

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 27 May 21 21:36 BST (UK) »
American usage distinguishes between the past participles 'got' and 'gotten.'  They don't mean the same thing.  Has got a dog = owns or possesses a dog.   Has gotten a dog = has acquired a dog.
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 27 May 21 21:54 BST (UK) »
Thanks Erato, not knowing what you have explained the sense I wanted to make in that sentence was that my sister has recently got a dog ,not that she has had a dog for some time.
Is that right?
Viktoria.

Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 27 May 21 22:35 BST (UK) »
 Here you are Viktoria - a bit of Kent dialect! It is part of a long poem called Dick and Sal at Canterbury Fair. My grandfather used to recite this verse, I presume it was all he knew or remembered.

 An so we sasselsail'd along,
   An crass de fields we stiver'd,
    While dickey lark kep up his song
    An at de clouds conniver'd
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #43 on: Friday 28 May 21 05:31 BST (UK) »
And so we sauntered along ( or sashayed?)
And across the fields we strove ( struggled)some tense of to strive?)
Whilst the skylark kept up his song
And at the clouds connived ?

That is the best I can do-
I like that.Thankyou.
I think old songs and sayings are as much heirlooms as artefacts are .

Viktoria.

Offline mumjo

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Re: Family Heirlooms
« Reply #44 on: Friday 28 May 21 09:59 BST (UK) »
I am fortunate in having so many items from my great grandfather. He was a gamekeeper in his early twenties, and passed his gun onto my father, who disabled it, and then left it to me. i’m not sure if it was the same great grandfather who made it but i also have a home made blanket chest, also loved and used for storage. My grandmothers wedding ring i wear every day. My brother inherited the grandfather clock, which i remember seeing in my great grandfathers house over 60 years ago, which will be passed to my son along with the gun.
I don’t have a lot from my mother’s side as she came from a large family, but do have what my aunt described as “the Turner vase” a large pot which my grandmother kept peacock feathers in but could have been an umbrella stand. 
Somerset - Beard, Masters, White, Percival
Lincolnshire - Turner, Wilson
Yorkshire - Turner
Staffordshire - Beech, Gee, Mellor