MOSTYN, THELWELL, FRANKLAND, HUGHES

[Mendomaid]

In a cluster spreadsheet of my AncestryDNA matches there is a large cluster of descendants of my 2nd great grandparents - Robert R. Hughes 1818 Berth, Denbighshire and Elinor LLoyd 1821 Llanddulas, Denbighshire. At the top of this cluster is a group of 3 people probably related to us 3C about 1 generation back and probably with a Hughes ancestor. I find Robert and Elinor in the 1851 Meriadog and 1861 Trefnant census with their known children. They immigrated to Ohio in 1869.
I have not found a birth record for Robert R. Hughes I have some parents for Robert but they are educated guesses. That is just for background information.

Two of the people/matches in the small cluster have small trees and I am building out their trees looking for common ancestors. The first match, pagie, whose paternal great grandparent was Samuel Jones 1873 possibly LLanasa, Flints. One tree gives his name as Samuel Frankland Jones. He was a much tatooed sailor who married Sarah Jane Jones in Liverpool 1911. His father was Peter Jones. Sarah Jane was born 1879 and her father was John Jones (deceased)

The Jones had 4 daughters, Mary Mostyn Jones 1912 Prestatyn, Muriel Mostyn Jones abt 1913/14 Birkenhead, Norah Jones 1914 Birkenhead, and my match's grandmother Kathleen Jones 1919 Birkenhead. Also living with the family in the 1939 Register is Peter T.(Thomas) M. Jones 1932 and a Richard Thelwell 15 May 1910, married, bricklayer. Richard married Mary Mostyn Jones in 1942.

Why do the Jones' give their first 2 daughters the middle name of Mostyn? Is this Richard Thelwell from the same branch as Edward Mostyn Thelwell discussed in the last message?

The other match, Susan, does have Hughes ancestors but the only connection I can find is that Mary Mostyn Jones 1912 was born at Prestatyn and Susan's great grandfather, Robert David Hughes 1864 was the Stationmaster at Prestatyn in 1911. Even if Robert David Hughes was the bio father of Mary Mostyn Jones it would not give me a match with a descendant of Kathleen Jones.

 It is possible that these 3 matches are descendants of Robert R. Hughes 4 brothers mentioned in his 1891 obit. Only one brother, Hugh Hughes, was listed and he was a Methodist minister in Liverpool.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

The Welsh language obit I have for Robert R Hughes notes his parents were Hugh and Mary Hughes

[Mendomaid]

Thanks to the FB Wales Genealogy forum I have 2 obits for Robert R. Hughes from the 1891 Welsh American Journals. My post was getting so long that I did not include his birth date or the Journal refs. `Thanks for adding that.

About 10 years ago when I was new to Welsh genealogy I found Robert R. Hughes in the Welsh census records and his marriage to Elinor Lloyd. I did not know his Exact birth year and the censuses showed he was born in Abergele. I found a birth record (Non Conformist Methodist) for a Robert Hughes (and twin Elizabeth) b. Dec. 9 1821, Berth and baptized Dec. 15 at the dwelling of Hugh Hughes. Parents Hugh Hughes, Abergele Parish and Sarah Williams (no spinster after her name) Abergele Parish. Back then I was able to access more parish records and I found one the showed that a minister had visited Sarah Williams after the birth of the twins and she died a few days later.  This information went into my tree and after I joined Ancestry was copied into the trees of my 3Cs. The records show that Hugh Hughes m. Mary Hughes (spinster) 5 Dec 1817 at Abergele, residence Henllan. Another record shows that Hugh Hughes, bachelor of Abergele m. Sarah Williams of St. George Parish 1 June 1821 at St. George.

The obits mention that Robert R. Hughes was one of 5 brothers. In the Non Conformist records there are 3 boys born at Berth to Hugh Hughes (Abergele) and Mary Hughes (Abergele): Hugh 1823, Isaac 1828 and Joseph 1830. Berth means Hedgerow in Welsh.

There is one boy born to Hugh Hughes (St. George) and Mary Hughes (Abergele): Edward Hughes  09 DEC 1820 • Penpalmant, Henllan, Denbighshire, Wales. Penpalment was a farm north of Denbigh
on the turnpike and bordering the Green. This is not too far south of where Robert R. Hughes was a farmer of 42 acres living in Trefnant, Henllan Parish, 1861.

And I have several 4th to distant genetic Hughes cousins who have ancestor from Denbigh, Wrexham and parishes south and west of Denbigh. One of those ancestors is living next to a Thelwell family. Between 1851 and 1869 Robert R. Hughes had children born in Flintshire, one of them at Waen which I think could be a Waen farm owned by the Mostyns.

The Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams couple had several children born in St. George and me and my 3Cs have some 4th to distant cousin matches with descendants of 2 of their children.

There are more records but this post is already too wordy so if there is any interest I will write more.