John RENWICK

[Neale1961]

Bear with me while I try to make sense of this …… I hope you can follow my thinking...

Ellen (RENWICK) McMILLAN named her mother as Ellen THOMSON (marriage cert)
And Duguld, her husband, named Ellen’s mother as Catherine WHITE (death cert)

Is this because the mother used both names?

On 25 Feb 1856 in New Monkland  Hellen THOMSON married  William WHITE (both were previously married)

WHITE   WILLIAM   THOMSON   HELLEN   1856   651/1 36   Airdrie or New Monkland

The 1851 census shows that William WHITE was already married to Jane SWADDELL (born England). They had married Newcastle upon Tyne in 1824. By 1851 they had 5 children.

The 1851 census shows Hellen THOMSON (b.1812 Linlithgowshire) living Rawyards, Railway cottage, New Monkland
with hubby Hugh MUIR an unemployed labourer, and a family of 8 MUIR children born in New Monkland.
Hugh and Hellen were married in 1833.

MUIR   HUGH   HELEN THOMSON/FR1752 (FR1752)   00/05/1833   651/    70 165   Airdrie or New Monkland
The Muir family were also at the same address in New Monkland in 1841

In 1861 census 18 Dairy Row New Monkland now we have William WHITE and all his MUIR step-children plus his new wife Hellen THOMSON who is now called CATHERINE WHITE

In 1871 census 45 Bridewell Row, New Monkland we have Hellen WHITE (occupation twice married!), plus 1 MUIR son and a 1 WHITE son.

How does Ellen Renwick fit in? I don’t know.
Was she an adopted child?, was she a niece? or connected with William White’s first wife’s family? or an illegitimate child of someone connected with Muirs or Thomsons or Whites or Swaddells?

AGAIN, I ask for names of witnesses to the RENWICK – MCMILLAN marriage. Excuse me if this has already been posted - I cannot see it.

Can any of you brilliant minds out there more forward with this or shoot holes in it? Either way it might be progress.


Edited to add. It is worth noting that none of Ellen Renwick McMillan’s children were named John. They were Willian, Catherine, Alexander, Angus, Flora, Helen, Dougald

[wilcoxon]

That`s a lot of great work done and it sounds possible. Well done.

My only query is  from which source did this information come from about John Renwick.
Deceased by 1891, who was a First Mate in the Merchant Service.

This is a good source for names but there is no personal information given
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/

 Family Search .United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941
John Renwick Birth Year (Range): 1800 - 1850
There are 9 results giving year and place of birth only.

[MonicaL]

Witnesses XX MacDonald and Mina Johnston.

Couldn't make out the first name of the MacDonald witness. See clip below:

[MonicaL]

My only query is  from which source did this information come from about John Renwick.
Deceased by 1891, who was a First Mate in the Merchant Service.

Yes, curious about that too...

Monica

[MonicaL]

Neale, how did you magic that up?! Well done, looks promising 

Given the pulling together of names, you would think there is some connection to these people for Ellen Renwick.

Monica

[wilcoxon]

There`s a tree on Ancestry  with a lot of info but nothing to shed any light on Renwick.
Martin White Family Tree.

William Carruthers Whyte
Birth 14 JAN 1803 • Muirkirk, Ayrshire, Scotland
Death 16 JUN 1878 • Stockton, Durham, England

He marries Jane Wadell 1803-1854

Then marries Helen Thomson 1812–1874
Name:    Hellen Thomson Spouse: William White
Marriage Date:    25 Feb 1856
Marriage Place: New Monkland,Lanark,Scotland

Birth 1812 • Armadale, West Lothian, Scotland
Death 23 JUL 1874 • Old Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland

In the earlier  census  after Helen marries Hugh Muir she is still listed as Helen Thomson.
Why is this, and why doesn`t she marry as Muir. Are there different regulations for Scotland .
I checked the tree and there are no Renwick names on it.

1841
Hugh Muir 30   
Helen Thomson 29

1851
Hugh Muir    40
Helen Thomson 39

[MonicaL]

In the earlier  census  after Helen marries Hugh Muir she is still listed as Helen Thomson.
Why is this, and why doesn`t she marry as Muir. Are there different regulations for Scotland .

Yes, there were. In Scotland, married women never lose the legal right to use their maiden name. This is the main reason that maiden names feature strongly for women in records. You will often see, for example where the maiden name is Thomson, Helen Thomson or Muir.

For death searches on Scotlands People, you search with both surnames for a married women (makes it so much easier  ). 

In early censuses, a married woman, as you have found, could show under her maiden name in her family household. This practice died out over the years in the census recordings.

Other examples of this (like memorial inscriptions) but you get the idea!

Monica 

[wilcoxon]

Thanks , a useful tip.😃

[MonicaL]

Robert Muir, son of Hugh Muir and Helen Thomson, reported mother Helen's death in July 1874. It is odd that there is no mention on the registration to a second husband, William White. Only ref is to Hugh Muir which is not the norm.

So, thinking about it, we don't actually have William White and Helen Thomson showing as living together at any time from their marriage in 1856 

Could the 1861 census entry you found Neale, with William White and wife a Catherine White, be a completely different woman?

Helen Thomson was born c. 1812 in Lessingham, Linlithgowshire (from her 1851 entry).  In her 1861 census entry with William, Catherine White (not clear what her maiden name could be) is showing as born in Airdrie around the same years.

Confusing for sure! 

More importantly, specially with all these threads around, I cannot see a young Helen (and variants) born in the 1840s in Scotland, with an English birth place or otherwise, that could fit for this group so far.

Clip from Helen's DC below: